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Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

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Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#51
It's unfortunate that the marketing folks at Microsoft are looking to take this stance to unbelievable levels. I would rather see relevant ads than irrelevant ads.

I used to work at Microsoft. I heard second hand that some exec (I believe they said it was Ballmer) in the last couple of years made the decision that Microsoft would make privacy a competitive differentiator. This sounds great on the surface, but it has lead to seriously unfortunate behavior.

For example, I worked on one of the first server manageability products that was completely hosted on the web. I was really excited to apply what I was learning from HN and the Lean Startup movement to a real online product and not boxed software. Then reality sunk in when we wanted to implement some very common features like A/B testing, surveys, email open rate tracking, exposure control, et al. Our legal and privacy teams were highly reluctant to allow us to do these because it could violate Microsoft's stance on privacy.

Some of the most memorable arguments were:

* "A/B testing and exposure control are not acceptable for our paying customers. Every customer must see the exact same version of the software at the same time." [Would you rather have a bad feature affect 100% of customers or 1% of customers?]

* "Google is getting a lot of bad press for all of the data Chrome sends to Google so we should minimize the amount of data captured and stored from this product." [I heard this in an official privacy training the same day that Chrome overtook IE in market share. Also, my product was specifically meant to capture lots of data about servers and analyze it for potential problems.]

* "We understand that these practices may be common place at [name any internet company here, Facebook, Google, Amazon, Bingo Card Creator], but we are not them. You must find a precedent that is set inside Microsoft before we can proceed."

I hope that Microsoft does succeed in making privacy a competitive differentiator, but I feel they lack tact and common sense in many cases.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#52
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. Because I WANT spam protection... I don't want ads. Just like it's fine for an electrician to enter my house to fix a power point. It is NOT okay for anyone to enter my house in order to sell me random things.

If you don't want it, don't use Gmail. It's not fine to call an electrician to your house to fix the power point in return for you letting them sell you random things, and then say "no, I don't want the things, I just want the fix!" It's not a breach of your privacy any more than spam filters reading your email is.

> If you don't want it, don't use Gmail.

I'm pretty sure that is exactly the point Microsoft are making with this campaign.

They are using the fact you can't opt out of a "feature" as an excuse to opt out of a "product".

They are leveraging peoples perception of 'Privacy' to do that.

Really do you think buying an Audi will mean you can kiss the girl at Prom? Or by wearing Calvin Klein you'll look amazing from every angle? ... No, Ads lie all the time... Chrome isn't technically "Faster" but they still run ads that say as much...

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#53
post #2

Was this really by Microsoft? It looks unprofessional and scammy, like if someone wanted to make Microsoft look.bad. Granted, from past MS behavior it would not be a surprise if this was really their work...

Microsoft makes Microsoft look bad, unfortunately for them. But it seems to be in their company's DNA to spread FUD about others. It's like crack to them.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#54

Why should Google be exempt from criticism? I think its good that a big company like Microsoft is making this kind of privacy an issue.

What issue, though? That your email is scanned by an algorithm to determine relevancy for ads? Guess what, your email is scanned by an algorithm on outlook.com too, to determine whether it's spam. It's exactly the same thing.

Offhand, I can't think of anything that algorithmic spam removal can do to compromise my privacy. I don't have to be careful around spam removal.

Targeted ads, on the other hand, can provide a lot of information to the advertiser if I respond to the ad. If targeted advertising is showing up in my email, I have to make sure that I do not respond to the ads. Essentially, a targeted ad is a little privacy land mine that I can easily step on if I don't keep my guard up.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#55
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want it, don't use Gmail. It's not fine to call an electrician to your house to fix the power point in return for you letting them sell you random things, and then say "no, I don't want the things, I just want the fix!" It's not a breach of your privacy any more than spam filters reading your email is.

> If you don't want it, don't use Gmail. I'm pretty sure that is exactly the point Microsoft are making with this campaign. They are using the fact you can't opt out of a "feature" as an excuse to opt out of a "product". They are leveraging peoples perception of 'Privacy' to do that. Really do you think buying an Audi will mean you can kiss the girl at Prom? Or by wearing Calvin Klein you'll look amazing from every a…

You are conflating two different issues, "I don't like seeing ads" and "algorithms reading my mail is a privacy breach". If you don't like seeing ads, I think even Gmail themselves would tell you not to use Gmail. But it's not a breach of privacy!

Or are you trolling?

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#56
post #46
post #32

If you login to Outlook.com (which is extremely slow btw), you'll also find the following settings page available from the bottom right cog icon: https://data.choice.microsoft.com/mydata/UserInterests Under 'My Data' it stores Bing Searches and takes guesses as to your 'Interests'. How does it do that exactly? Operationally, how different is Outlook.com a.k.a Hotmail, compared to Google? Both are free, and nothing is…

"You can also opt-out of getting personalized ads from advertising companies other than Microsoft, on the Consumer Choice page.": http://www.aboutads.info/choices/

Personalized ads is not an issue.

Excessive and invasive email scanning and analysis is.

It's really a bait-n-switch technique. They are substituting a bigger and more important issue with something tactile but of a superficial value. "Your tumor hurts? We have a Tylenol for that."

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#57
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What issue, though? That your email is scanned by an algorithm to determine relevancy for ads? Guess what, your email is scanned by an algorithm on outlook.com too, to determine whether it's spam. It's exactly the same thing.

Offhand, I can't think of anything that algorithmic spam removal can do to compromise my privacy. I don't have to be careful around spam removal. Targeted ads, on the other hand, can provide a lot of information to the advertiser if I respond to the ad. If targeted advertising is showing up in my email, I have to make sure that I do not respond to the ads. Essentially, a targeted ad is a little privacy land mine that…

I've never accidentally clicked on an ad, I think they're pretty out of the way in that regard. If that's what worries you, sure. Otherwise, the fact that you want to respond to the ad can provide a lot of information to the advertiser. If you're worried about that, just don't respond.

Re: Aggressive negative advertising by Microsoft against Google.

#59
post #26
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely by Microsoft. The site uses the following nameservers, which are under Microsoft control and cannot be forged. ns3.msft.net ns4.msft.net ns1.msft.net ns2.msft.net ns5.msft.net Pathetic stuff.

But google DO go through every message to sell ads. How is this pathetic? Some people don't like the fact that their emails are used in that way, so focusing on that is just marketing. No different to google running ads for chrome saying "it's faster"... it IS, and some people care about that.

Saying that chrome is "faster" is one thing.

Saying that IE is "slower" is another.

Likewise Microsoft could have made a ad that showed how they protect your privacy, instead of pointing how their biggest competitor don't.

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