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The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

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Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#41

Post by bpatrianakos »

rationalthink wrote: post #27
bpatrianakos wrote: post #6

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Whenever I hear someone say "I'm not pro X" or "I'm not anti-Y" or "I'm not a Z apologist" it's always followed by a "but" that essentially amounts to "I've put my blinders on and trying my best to sound objective". Now, this could just be me but I really doubt it - the upgraded specs and compatibility don't mean anything to me even as a power user if I'm not able to comfortably work…

"I really think the blending of tablets and laptops is a bad idea." Reason? What's the problem with "touch interfaces plus a keyboard"? Many thought the iPad was a bad idea, but its sales suggest the opposite. After all, an iPad is a "touch interface with a smaller keyboard on the screen", right? "you've got to take into account the types of gestures people are naturally accustomed to plus the size of touch targets"…

To your points, the reason I think the blending of tablets and laptops is a bad idea is because they're made for very different tasks. The moment you add a keyboard to a tablet, no matter who makes it, you've put distance between yourself and the device and negate a lot of the benefits you're supposed to get from it. Are there times when the keyboard is necessary? Absolutely but I'd argue that having it attached lends itself to being used more often and thus you end up with a really small, low power laptop-ish thing. From my experience and what I've seen others experience, having the keyboard as something totally separate and only pulled out on a rare occassion makes a person less apt to use it and therefore they end up using the device how it was meant to be used - as a portable computer made for really quick tasks that don't require tons of precision like checking movie times, shooting of a short email, etc.

To your second point, I don't think I'm making too many assumptions. The laptop with a touch screen isn't a new idea, we've had them for a few years now. If you've got a laptop that responds to touch you need a Metro-like interface for it, which like I said, is cool for a tablet but when you get down to business you end up just going for the mouse and keyboard and the touch screen ends up as a gimmick until you're back in I'm-carrying-this-thing-around-one-handed-and-doing-a-quick-thing-here-and-there mode.

Yeah, I haven't used the Surface pro, you're right. And if I had used it I would then be a credible source but I'm not trying to be credible here. I'm not a journalist. I'm a guy on HN like a lot of others who's sharing my thoughts, experiences and opinions. I'm not claiming to be an expert and you can see I use a lot of "I think"'s and "in my experience"'s in what I say. Everyone's mileage may vary but unless I'm making totally off the wall unfounded crazy suggestions or until I decide I'm going to write a report I expect people to cite I think I have just as much right to what I say as a lot of others here who haven't used it but have an opinion. Now, I have used the RT and a bunch of Windows8 laptops and desktops. So it's not like I've been living in a bubble and have no clue about what these devices look, feel, or work like.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#42

Post by film42 »

bpatrianakos wrote: post #6

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Whenever I hear someone say "I'm not pro X" or "I'm not anti-Y" or "I'm not a Z apologist" it's always followed by a "but" that essentially amounts to "I've put my blinders on and trying my best to sound objective". Now, this could just be me but I really doubt it - the upgraded specs and compatibility don't mean anything to me even as a power user if I'm not able to comfortably work…

For me personally, I just don't want it. As a developer/ student, I love being able to step away from my laptop with all its notifications and what not, pick up my ipad and read, study, or watch netflix. The tablet has become my haven when works and school get crazy. I love that it doesn't vibrate and doesn't encourage me to multitask. I love that by doing specific tasks very well, it helps me a ton!

In other words, I love that my ipad doesn't try to make life more busy than it needs to be. It's as close as I can get to unplugging when I need it most.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#43

Post by rayiner »

This is the paragraph that loses me: "At $1,000, you’re paying about as much as you’d pay for a MacBook Air or a more powerful Windows laptop. Is this premium worth the investment? I’d say that it ultimately depends on how you intend to use this system. If it’s a laptop replacement as in something you carry on trips or to meetings, then yes. This is a stable and solid machine and will turn heads when you open it up."

If I wanted a laptop, I'd by an Air. If I wanted a tablet, I'd by a Nexus 10 or an iPad. Why would I want a laptop without a real keyboard/trackpad, and why would I want a tablet that's 2 pounds with 3-5 hours of battery life? You can say "best of both worlds" but I think it's more consolidation for the sake of consolidation resulting in a user experience that's compromised for every use-case.

From the article: "The type cover and inputs are flawed. The touchpad on the type cover is woefully small and the connection between the keyboard and the device is often wonky, disconnecting at odd intervals."

This, in my opinion, puts a nail in the whole "but, but, it's an ultrabook!" shtick some people have been trotting out.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#44

Post by SirPulse »

samstave wrote: post #35
bpatrianakos wrote: post #6

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Whenever I hear someone say "I'm not pro X" or "I'm not anti-Y" or "I'm not a Z apologist" it's always followed by a "but" that essentially amounts to "I've put my blinders on and trying my best to sound objective". Now, this could just be me but I really doubt it - the upgraded specs and compatibility don't mean anything to me even as a power user if I'm not able to comfortably work…

I am sitting here typing with my Lenovo x220 Tablet Laptop - a laptop with a touch screen and stylus. I hate it. HATE it. the touch screen on a laptop is out of place without any way to disable the touch when I want, it overlays the touch technology on the screen which is visible to me in the sun - as well as the screen medium makes the screen more dim than I would like. Especially in the sun/brightly lit areas. It r…

Regarding your "touch what daddy is touching" comment, why is that not true for a keyboard or touch pad?

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#45

Post by zalzane »

mctx wrote: post #36

> the 64 GB has only 23 GB available and the 128 GB model has only 83 GB available. How does Windows 8 take up 41GB? Is it purely the OS? Bloatware?

This is a question I've been wanting an answer to myself. I have a 64gb SSD that has -only- a blank windows install on it; no programs or anything, and it takes up 54gb of space.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#47

Post by samstave »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #39
samstave wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sitting here typing with my Lenovo x220 Tablet Laptop - a laptop with a touch screen and stylus. I hate it. HATE it. the touch screen on a laptop is out of place without any way to disable the touch when I want, it overlays the touch technology on the screen which is visible to me in the sun - as well as the screen medium makes the screen more dim than I would like. Especially in the sun/brightly lit areas. It r…

Just curious, did you buy the Lenovo thinking the touch screen would be a plus? I'm not sure a saleperson at Best Buy would be able to sell me a touch screen computer. The mere idea seems unwieldly, like someone desperately trying to make innovation in consistently wrong directions.

This is a work provided machine, not my choice :)

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#48

Post by InclinedPlane »

phren0logy wrote: post #30
InclinedPlane wrote: post #18

I think the aspirations behind the Surface Pro are solid, but everything I've read about the execution leads me to believe that it is a huge failure. That happens. Sometimes you try to push something too early or it requires many iterations to actually get right. I suspect it will take a lot of evolution for some frankensteinian relative of both mobile and desktop operating systems to be good enough to actually serve…

That's pretty much my reaction: Microsoft is being fairly radical, but not radical enough. What Android, iOS, and OS X have demonstrated is that a lot of people can meet their computing needs without Windows. Microsoft's approach seems doomed to hold on to a huge but ever-shrinking slice of that pie. Offering something dramatically different might (from my flawed understanding) demand removing some of the older eleme…

I think the problem is that they just don't understand the market well enough. In many ways the Surface Pro is an equivalent misstep as the Kin. They're trying to target the wrong niche in the wrong way with the wrong product and a bad business model.

They need to either outdo Apple, beat them to the punch, or play on a different field. For example, Microsoft is perfectly positioned to make the tablet as a business device a reality. IT departments would salivate over the ability to control apps and deployments and so forth the way a carrier can. Imagine if MS build a set of tools that allowed companies to make internal intranet "app stores", for example. Imagine if they made all of their office tools work well on a tablet. Imagine if they made a tablet that could easily snap into a base station and suddenly work as a monitor attached to a kb/mouse/wired internet and then be easily removed for taking to a meeting or home. And it also could have built-in 3G connectivity and smart VPN support so it would always stay effectively connected to the company network. Is that the kind of device that a lot of people would buy? Is that the sort of thing that could build an entire business that Apple would have trouble reaching for some time?

I could come up with dozens more examples. But instead of making a strong move they took a running start then stopped to tie their shoelaces and forgot what they were doing. Good specs and fancy googaws are only of limited value in the moment, and they only sell devices if you've already got mindshare. Apple could announce that it's next iPhone was dephlogistonated and it would sell devices, but that's because of all the hard, uphill brand grinding work that Apple has done in years past, MS isn't in that same space.

There are some truly cool things about the Surface Pro (such as the multi-touch + stylus input), but this is not a time for experimentation.

Apple is making in profit about 3/4 of Microsoft's revenue. Microsoft certainly still has a lot of resources still at its disposal, and it will still continue to earn billions in revenue for years (maybe decades), but the time is fast approaching of their last remaining chance to stay relevant and stay in the game before it passes them by.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#49

Post by bad_user »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #40
bad_user wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a lot of time to build and release a new OS and then jump-start a community of developers around it. The power of the PC and the reason why we'll still be using PCs for a long time is also due to its legacy ... basically whatever tasks you need to do on a PC, there's already an app for it and most people probably know about it too. Getting rid of this legacy would be Microsoft's poison pill. Unfortunately fo…

The dilemma can also be disrupted, by pulling a Henderson of some kind. Change what it means to be a PC/desktop. Put all those legacy apps in a 3D world, tool up for holographic displays, something. Or just slowly die, filing lawsuits to retard the industry and drag out your lifeblood a few more years.

I actually agree with you. Microsoft, instead of working on mediocre hybrids, should work harder to innovate the desktop, while slowly pursuing the path of hybrids with WinPhone. The truth is the world is not ready for hybrids yet. And when the world will be ready, then I predict both iOS and Android will be there.

Instead they've chosen to handicap the most successful product they've ever had. I couldn't say I'm sorry as I haven't been a Windows user for years.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#50

Post by samstave »

SirPulse wrote: post #44
samstave wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sitting here typing with my Lenovo x220 Tablet Laptop - a laptop with a touch screen and stylus. I hate it. HATE it. the touch screen on a laptop is out of place without any way to disable the touch when I want, it overlays the touch technology on the screen which is visible to me in the sun - as well as the screen medium makes the screen more dim than I would like. Especially in the sun/brightly lit areas. It r…

Regarding your "touch what daddy is touching" comment, why is that not true for a keyboard or touch pad?

Well it's pretty easy to defend the keyboard, and I certainly don't want to prevent her from being curious about what I am doing and computers in general - it's just that her tiny hands an fingers appear to be magically attracted to the little red X in the corner of the screen as that is typically where she grabs the screen to bend it toward her so she can see.

I just would like the ability to disable the touch functionality when I want.

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