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The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

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Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#31

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Whenever I hear someone say "I'm not pro X" or "I'm not anti-Y" or "I'm not a Z apologist" it's always followed by a "but" that essentially amounts to "I've put my blinders on and trying my best to sound objective". Now, this could just be me but I really doubt it - the upgraded specs and compatibility don't mean anything to me even as a power user if I'm not able to comfortably work…

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Whenever I hear someone say "I hate to bring up Apple" it's always followed by a "but" that essentially amounts to "I've put my blinders on and trying my best to sound objective".

[deleted]

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#33
I don't usually read Gruber's post, but I see he put up a list of conclusions from several reviews for Surface Pro. They keyword in all of them seems to be "compromise", which is exactly what I said in my others comments:

http://daringfireball.net/2013/02/the_c_word

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#34

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Whenever I hear someone say "I'm not pro X" or "I'm not anti-Y" or "I'm not a Z apologist" it's always followed by a "but" that essentially amounts to "I've put my blinders on and trying my best to sound objective". Now, this could just be me but I really doubt it - the upgraded specs and compatibility don't mean anything to me even as a power user if I'm not able to comfortably work…

I think such a device does make sense, but I think the trick is getting it right, and doing the transition well. I suspect that the right choice is to actually morph the UI between a keyboard/mouse-centric mode and a touch-centric mode, trying to satisfy both modes simultaneously with some common interface is probably a mistake.

I agree with you and I think I could have phrased that better. I suppose what I was really trying to say was more along the lines of "I haven't seen such a device that makes sense yet" because really, so far, there hasn't been a single "hybrid" that blends the two worlds in a natural way. But I wonder what's the real purpose of such a device? Is it just about the touch interface for the sake of novelty or are they adding it because it somehow makes the experience of using a small laptop better? What I personally see, so far, is companies making these things to kind of capitalize on the whole tablet thing. If I were to imagine the perfect "hybrid" it would have pretty much the same form factor but the software would just be different. I picture an ultra thin, ultra light, device about the size of an 11" Macbook Air that works in two modes. When you open it up to reveal the keyboard you're in desktop OS mode. You don't touch the screen because there's no need. In desktop mode you need precision, multiple windows, and a UI that's easy to interact with for more than an hour. You'd code, write, organize, and just work in desktop mode. Then you'd somehow kind of swivel and close the lid so the screen is facing out and you've got yourself a tablet. The UI then goes into tablet mode where you're tapping, pointing, pinching, and swiping at your screen, focused on one task at a time. Those tasks are more recreational or more "read-only" like watch a movie or check email. I can't deny that there have been many times that I wished I had a keyboard when using certain apps on a tablet however those times are rare and I think sacrificing that one convenience for everything else that a tablet UI gives is worth it. Putting a keyboard between you and your screen automatically puts the device further from you, forces you to sit still often on a flat surface, and just generally negates a lot of the benefits of tablets in general like the ability to just carry a small screen around in one hand and still be able to effectively interact with the apps on it. I know people who use an iPad as their main computer because they thought they could get a keyboard and it'd be cool and it just fails miserably. "Normal" users often complain about how complicated a normal computer is to use and point to tablets as beacons of hope but there are times when you're trying to accomplish certain tasks that the same simplicity that was supposed to save them comes back to bite them and makes things even harder (having to switch back and forth between multiple apps to get one thing done sometimes).

I think that maybe for as long as each form factor lends itself to certain kinds of activities there may not be someone who gets it right without literally combining both the laptop and tablet experience into one device. This means more like a two-in-one device than a hybrid. There is a difference. A two-in-one has the complete features of each device and they are completely separate from each other while a hybrid is trying to be all things to all people at the same time.

Or, maybe, just maybe, someone really will get it right and I'll eat my words.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#35

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Whenever I hear someone say "I'm not pro X" or "I'm not anti-Y" or "I'm not a Z apologist" it's always followed by a "but" that essentially amounts to "I've put my blinders on and trying my best to sound objective". Now, this could just be me but I really doubt it - the upgraded specs and compatibility don't mean anything to me even as a power user if I'm not able to comfortably work…

I am sitting here typing with my Lenovo x220 Tablet Laptop - a laptop with a touch screen and stylus.

I hate it. HATE it. the touch screen on a laptop is out of place without any way to disable the touch when I want, it overlays the touch technology on the screen which is visible to me in the sun - as well as the screen medium makes the screen more dim than I would like. Especially in the sun/brightly lit areas.

It really needs to be done right in order to make a great experience. Thus far I haven't seen one.

One of the frustrating things about a touch-screen laptop is that I have a very curious toddler. She likes to touch what daddy is touching, so she will come and grab the screen to bend it down so she can see what I am doing and in doing so clicks on things, scrolls and closes windows.

I never use the touch screen on this machine for anything and so it is simply an annoyance.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#37
post #8

Here's the Anandtech review featured on HN just a few hours ago. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5175190 If that one got flagged off the front page then this one stands no chance. No point in wasting time writing up comments. Save your breath for the extremely negative posts, those will stay on the front page for days.

It did not get flagged off the front page. I watched it myself how it dropped to the bottom of the page. Getting flagged off the page would've meant disappearing from the top early on. Maybe it's too hard to admit people just don't care much about it.

Then why was it sitting below another article that was posted around the same time but had only nearly half the points?

http://i.imgur.com/uFPTSqR.png

Edit: Even now, it ranks lower than another article with the exact same points posted a full four hours before it.

http://i.imgur.com/Yg5kXJb.png

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#38

I think the aspirations behind the Surface Pro are solid, but everything I've read about the execution leads me to believe that it is a huge failure. That happens. Sometimes you try to push something too early or it requires many iterations to actually get right. I suspect it will take a lot of evolution for some frankensteinian relative of both mobile and desktop operating systems to be good enough to actually serve…

That's pretty much my reaction: Microsoft is being fairly radical, but not radical enough. What Android, iOS, and OS X have demonstrated is that a lot of people can meet their computing needs without Windows. Microsoft's approach seems doomed to hold on to a huge but ever-shrinking slice of that pie. Offering something dramatically different might (from my flawed understanding) demand removing some of the older eleme…

It takes a lot of time to build and release a new OS and then jump-start a community of developers around it. The power of the PC and the reason why we'll still be using PCs for a long time is also due to its legacy ... basically whatever tasks you need to do on a PC, there's already an app for it and most people probably know about it too.

Getting rid of this legacy would be Microsoft's poison pill. Unfortunately for them Windows is being disrupted by OS X and Linux for power-users on one hand and Android / iOS for normal users on the other hand. They are in the classic innovators dilemma.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#39

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Whenever I hear someone say "I'm not pro X" or "I'm not anti-Y" or "I'm not a Z apologist" it's always followed by a "but" that essentially amounts to "I've put my blinders on and trying my best to sound objective". Now, this could just be me but I really doubt it - the upgraded specs and compatibility don't mean anything to me even as a power user if I'm not able to comfortably work…

I am sitting here typing with my Lenovo x220 Tablet Laptop - a laptop with a touch screen and stylus. I hate it. HATE it. the touch screen on a laptop is out of place without any way to disable the touch when I want, it overlays the touch technology on the screen which is visible to me in the sun - as well as the screen medium makes the screen more dim than I would like. Especially in the sun/brightly lit areas. It r…

Just curious, did you buy the Lenovo thinking the touch screen would be a plus? I'm not sure a saleperson at Best Buy would be able to sell me a touch screen computer. The mere idea seems unwieldly, like someone desperately trying to make innovation in consistently wrong directions.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much my reaction: Microsoft is being fairly radical, but not radical enough. What Android, iOS, and OS X have demonstrated is that a lot of people can meet their computing needs without Windows. Microsoft's approach seems doomed to hold on to a huge but ever-shrinking slice of that pie. Offering something dramatically different might (from my flawed understanding) demand removing some of the older eleme…

It takes a lot of time to build and release a new OS and then jump-start a community of developers around it. The power of the PC and the reason why we'll still be using PCs for a long time is also due to its legacy ... basically whatever tasks you need to do on a PC, there's already an app for it and most people probably know about it too. Getting rid of this legacy would be Microsoft's poison pill. Unfortunately fo…

The dilemma can also be disrupted, by pulling a Henderson of some kind. Change what it means to be a PC/desktop. Put all those legacy apps in a 3D world, tool up for holographic displays, something.

Or just slowly die, filing lawsuits to retard the industry and drag out your lifeblood a few more years.

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