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Speaking up

sazzy.co.uk

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Re: Speaking up

#11

Post by sdoering »

abcd_f wrote: post #3

So apparently, she is a web designer (or a web design agency owner), but it takes an effort to find a link to an actual portfolio. There is the Resources page but it's full of her own photos from every angle. The About page is too full of important aspects of her professional background including how she takes her coffee (apparently 3rd most frequently asked question). I understand that she is the brand and she's pro…

So you are looking at a personal blog (at least, that is what it looks like me), that is also used as a personal site for speaking gigs (press images, bio, et al).

You are not willing to follow the link to her agency, to look for a portfolio there, but you have the "right", quite passive-aggressively, to criticize her in a way, that makes her look not like the victim, she is in the told story, but that it is all her own fault?

cynism on

You feel manipulated, so you are the victim now. If a woman describes her experience with something like this, somehow you become the victim?

OK, sorry, but I really do not get this. I really try to understand it - but maybe I am not intelligent enough. Please try to explain. I really would love to understand your worldview...

cynism off

Re: Speaking up

#12

Post by anu_gupta »

abcd_f wrote: post #8
tudorw wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how criticising the formatting of the content without discussing the content adds anything. Was there a point you wanted to make ?

I am not convinced that her motives for posting this are genuine. This sort of deeply personal story has no business of being attached to the Resources and the FAQ pages on how to get her speak at your event.

What are you talking about?

Why wouldn't her motives be genuine? What evidence do you have to suggest it's anything other than that?

She's posted to her PERSONAL blog. How is that "attached" to the Resources and FAQ pages on her site?

Re: Speaking up

#13

Post by mattdeboard »

h2s wrote: post #2

Are there any high profile women in this industry who haven't been treated like shit in some way such as this? What a nasty bunch of people we are. Are we (developers) the douchey 80s guy of the 21st century?

Seriously. I roll my eyes at some of the white-knighting that goes when a woman is slighted on the Internet but holy crap I get nervous for my girlfriend who's a talented programmer and about to graduate with a CS degree. Is this kind of bullshit in store for her? Sheesh.

Re: Speaking up

#14

Post by anu_gupta »

mattdeboard wrote: post #10
abcd_f wrote: post #3

So apparently, she is a web designer (or a web design agency owner), but it takes an effort to find a link to an actual portfolio. There is the Resources page but it's full of her own photos from every angle. The About page is too full of important aspects of her professional background including how she takes her coffee (apparently 3rd most frequently asked question). I understand that she is the brand and she's pro…

Everyone is too polite or concerned with HN decorum to say so but you're a fucking asshole.

I really hope you don't get hellbanned for this - I absolutely agree with you.

Re: Speaking up

#15

Post by [deleted] »

h2s wrote: post #2

Are there any high profile women in this industry who haven't been treated like shit in some way such as this? What a nasty bunch of people we are. Are we (developers) the douchey 80s guy of the 21st century?

[deleted]

Re: Speaking up

#16

Post by abcd_f »

sdoering wrote: post #11
abcd_f wrote: post #3

So apparently, she is a web designer (or a web design agency owner), but it takes an effort to find a link to an actual portfolio. There is the Resources page but it's full of her own photos from every angle. The About page is too full of important aspects of her professional background including how she takes her coffee (apparently 3rd most frequently asked question). I understand that she is the brand and she's pro…

So you are looking at a personal blog (at least, that is what it looks like me), that is also used as a personal site for speaking gigs (press images, bio, et al). You are not willing to follow the link to her agency, to look for a portfolio there, but you have the "right", quite passive-aggressively, to criticize her in a way, that makes her look not like the victim, she is in the told story, but that it is all her…

Jeez. If I am a victim now, then you are no lesser of a victim for being hurt by not being able to fully understand my comment of me not being a victim. Let's not go the soap opera way.

She is a professional public speaker, not a web designer. Whatever she's gotta say, it serves to promote her brand. This is factored into her decision to post. It doesn't make what she has to say any less true, but it does make it far less interesting and it also makes it look far more calculated.

edit on

Editing comments after getting a reply? Oki-doki.

edit off

Re: Speaking up

#17

Post by abcd_f »

anu_gupta wrote: post #14
mattdeboard wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is too polite or concerned with HN decorum to say so but you're a fucking asshole.

I really hope you don't get hellbanned for this - I absolutely agree with you.

Good for you, guys. A knee-jerk reaction at its best.

Re: Speaking up

#18

Post by newhouseb »

Halfway through reading this article I had myself really wishing posts like these would just publicly out the perpetrator instead of referring to them anonymously - unfortunately as I finished the article I realized that she hadn't done so because the perpetrator was never found out.

For the cases where there is no question who the perpetrator is - I wonder if it would be beneficial to encourage more public shaming? Part of me knows that if these people are lead to believe their actions are left without consequence they will continue in their wrongdoing. When a blog post tells a story of someone being assaulted, a lot of good people will come to their support but I would be genuinely surprised if a creep is convinced not to be a creep by reading a story in the third person about another anonymous creep.

If we call these people out and kick them out of the community, like when a spouse kicks out a cheating partner, we have more room for responsible, respectable community members.

On the other hand, public shaming at any level _seems_ childish to me, but I can't point out why. Additionally, if someone makes false claims, they can do serious damage very easily. There is probably no easy answer here.

Re: Speaking up

#19

Post by pja »

h2s wrote: post #2

Are there any high profile women in this industry who haven't been treated like shit in some way such as this? What a nasty bunch of people we are. Are we (developers) the douchey 80s guy of the 21st century?

And this is why you need moderated communities, because otherwise the assholes will dominate the discourse in your chosen milieu and drive out anyone they deem unacceptable.

Very often it's women. I don't know why but either there's a class of developers who feel personally threatened by women in their chosen profession, or it's personal: some individual has believed themselves to be entitled to that woman's attention & when it was not forthcoming begin a cruel campaign of punishment to make up for the perceived insult. Maybe even both?

It's been said that sunlight is the best disinfectant: I know that I'd be completely unaware of this behaviour if some of the women involved weren't brave enough to speak out about it. I don't have any good solutions though: the best I can do is to refuse to tolerate any sexism in my own circles, on the grounds that the people who do this kind of thing take other people's silence (not wanting to be "that guy") as implicit affirmation of their actions.

Re: Speaking up

#20

Post by [deleted] »

mattdeboard wrote: post #13
h2s wrote: post #2

Are there any high profile women in this industry who haven't been treated like shit in some way such as this? What a nasty bunch of people we are. Are we (developers) the douchey 80s guy of the 21st century?

Seriously. I roll my eyes at some of the white-knighting that goes when a woman is slighted on the Internet but holy crap I get nervous for my girlfriend who's a talented programmer and about to graduate with a CS degree. Is this kind of bullshit in store for her? Sheesh.

[deleted]
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