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We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

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Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#61

Post by bluedanieru »

ekianjo wrote: post #52
rndmize wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be misunderstanding something. A post-labor has nothing to do with population and everything to do with automation. As it becomes more efficient to have robots and computers to do what was previously human work, we will eventually reach a point where just about every conceivable job that we currently employ people for could be automated. Most likely, a post-labor world should be capable of arriving well b…

Even if you have robots you will still need a massive workforce to produce them, to get the resources to produce them, to check them, to maintain them, to repair them, to program them, to update them and so on. Or maybe you believe in a state of singularity in which all of this will happen at the same time? :) Automation has already been happening in many industries, in case you have not noticed, and that did not res…

So what, then, do you think the purpose of technological advancement is? Quality of life and wages have more-or-less flat-lined while productivity is way, way up. We are producing heaps more wealth per person than at any point in history, and yet we don't have much to show for it. Nowhere near proportional to the productivity increases, that's for certain.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not a Luddite by any stretch and I'm not suggesting we should go back to an agrarian society, but we have a serious economic and political problem where the benefits of technological advancement are going in overwhelming proportion to a very small subset of the population. If something isn't done about that, and soon, the resulting upheaval may force us back to pre-industrial living anyway (or more likely, much worse).

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#62

Post by Strshps1MoreTim »

ekianjo wrote: post #52
rndmize wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be misunderstanding something. A post-labor has nothing to do with population and everything to do with automation. As it becomes more efficient to have robots and computers to do what was previously human work, we will eventually reach a point where just about every conceivable job that we currently employ people for could be automated. Most likely, a post-labor world should be capable of arriving well b…

Even if you have robots you will still need a massive workforce to produce them, to get the resources to produce them, to check them, to maintain them, to repair them, to program them, to update them and so on. Or maybe you believe in a state of singularity in which all of this will happen at the same time? :) Automation has already been happening in many industries, in case you have not noticed, and that did not res…

Exactly, nowadays the majority of people in the developed world are "working" in marketing, finance and other useless areas. It would be far better if they just stay home.

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#63

Post by mkl »

ekianjo wrote: post #52
rndmize wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be misunderstanding something. A post-labor has nothing to do with population and everything to do with automation. As it becomes more efficient to have robots and computers to do what was previously human work, we will eventually reach a point where just about every conceivable job that we currently employ people for could be automated. Most likely, a post-labor world should be capable of arriving well b…

Even if you have robots you will still need a massive workforce to produce them, to get the resources to produce them, to check them, to maintain them, to repair them, to program them, to update them and so on. Or maybe you believe in a state of singularity in which all of this will happen at the same time? :) Automation has already been happening in many industries, in case you have not noticed, and that did not res…

Most jobs in developed countries are service related. These jobs will not disappear even if you automate the production part of the economy.

Why not? They already are. Self-checkout, online forms and purchases, ATMs, touch tone phone menus, etc.

Here is Marshall Brain's optimistic but well explained and convincing view: http://www.marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#64

Post by tossacct »

ahomescu1 wrote: post #54
olliesaunders wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should all do whatever the fuck we want, until we die. Yeah but we’re not allowed to. Most employers will demands you show up for 40 hours a week and then frown at you or, at least, never promote you if you don’t stay for a lot more.

You could start your own company, be your own employer and work as much as you feel like.

>>>You could start your own company, be your own employer and work as much as you feel like.

Most people in the United States do not have this option because they do not have enough money to do so.

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#65

Post by sliverstorm »

lotu wrote: post #58
olliesaunders wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should all do whatever the fuck we want, until we die. Yeah but we’re not allowed to. Most employers will demands you show up for 40 hours a week and then frown at you or, at least, never promote you if you don’t stay for a lot more.

You are allow to do what ever the fuck you want until you die just don't expect me to give you money for doing what ever the fuck you want. As I too am doing what every the fuck I want, which happens to include only giving money to people who do something useful for me.

This is a crucial part of the plan neo-hippies seem to forget

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#66

Post by Strshps1MoreTim »

learc83 wrote: post #36
danso wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mental acuity is very much a physical quality. Yes, there are 70 year olds who can think and mentally adapt exceptionally well, just as there are 70 year olds who can do one arm push-ups and live till 100. But it doesn't mean that 70 year old are just like 30 year olds, but with more experience.

Most of the studies that showed rapid mental decline in old age have been debunked. A 70 year old with no actual problems (e.g., Alzheimer's) is very likely to function perfectly fine mentally. A 2002 study (published in the Alzheimer's and Dementia Journal) found that ~91% of people 70 and older were capable of normal mental function.

Seriously? How many 70 year old people do you know? Let say you need to urgently take your child to a doctor and can choose between a 30 yo and a 70 yo. What would you do?

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#68

Post by obstacle1 »

revscat wrote: post #60
readme wrote: post #22

This guy might be on to something, but I have an even better idea, and it required 0 scientific research to synthesize. We should all do whatever the fuck we want, until we die.

Says someone who obviously doesn't have a child support payment.

Yes, looks like he chose to not get married, not have a kid, and not get divorced.

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#69

Post by Claudus »

I left my job a year ago, and started doing remote work for a small company. Since then, I've worked between 15 to 25 hours a week. As a result:

- I'm more rested and stress free

- I get a lot more exercise and I eat healthier

- I'm much more efficient and motivated in my work

- My creativity and exploration into new fields has bloomed

I used to put almost all of my effort into my work, with not enough time devoted to maintaining and improving myself.

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#70

Post by pogden »

pteredactyl wrote: post #27
Zigurd wrote: post #2

Until we come to grips with what will likely be a post-labor world, this is a good transitional approach. The 40 hour week is an arbitrary standard, and it may now be rational to reduce that number. Few jobs are now so arduous that 70 year olds cannot perform well. We are suffering from outdated standards for work weeks and retirement age, and un-sticking our assumptions is likely to benefit the situation.

I agree we are stuck in an outdated model however I am not keen on someone me telling how many hours I can or should work.

If you're like most people, somebone already does: your boss, who answers to "convention."
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