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A Simplified Modern Approach to Stoicism

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Re: A Simplified Modern Approach to Stoicism

#2
Shorter list :

- Read the "Epistulæ Morales ad Lucilium" from Seneca

- Read the "Bhagavad Gita" to avoid being stuck in a given interpretation.

- Shy away from religion. Find the truth by yourself

And therefore make your own list of how to live your day. Feeling grateful and trying to see the lord in every being you encounter, friend or foe, is is mine.

Also "no man does evil knowingly" seems wrong - sorry, but a tiny minority of people really want to see the world burn.

Just remember there are very few of them, that by default you should assume people have good intentions but sometimes fail.

EDIT: Following the excellent comment of nerdfiles one can only see with "showdead" option, order of reading is important, and my suggestion might not be the best.

Not everyone can start with Seneca. You will certainly need a starting point to take advantage of the stoic teachings, ie something to help you see how useful stoicism could be to you.

This starting point is Logic for many people, but it can be anything that tries to teach how to look for the truth and to pinpoint problems. I personally found Atlas Shrugged very interesting, others will have different tastes. The Dharma can be useful. Richard Feynman work is great. A vast personal experience could also help, since people who have traveled the world usually develop interesting insights.

(BTW nerdfiles, your account has been blacklisted)

Re: A Simplified Modern Approach to Stoicism

#4
If anyone is interested in a book on the subject, I really like William Irvine's "A Guide to the Good Life" (http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/01953...)

I have some extensive book notes here: http://www.quora.com/Leo-Polovets/Exceptionally-long-book-no...

Re: A Simplified Modern Approach to Stoicism

#5
Stoicism as a philosophy consisted of 3 parts, where the order of teaching itself depended on the Stoic teacher in question, but nevertheless the Stoic teacher usually had a reason for the particular order. The idea that each part depended on the others is an integral structural component of Stoicism.

To emphasize Ethics, for instance, and not at all address the Physics or Logic: this conceptually and historically cannot be Stoicism. Call it 'ascetic maximalism' or whatever you want, but it is not conceptually or historically Stoicism.

The OP has only underscored Stoic Ethics, or at least butchered it, and this clearly shows. Logic nor Physics appears in the OP, and the OP assumes or implies that Stoicisms would accept a doctrine of fatalism.

Stoics were not fatalist, and it is unfortunate that this misinformation continues to color and determine our perception of Stoic history and Stoic thought.

What you are reading in the OP cannot historically or conceptually be called "Modern Stoicism." Physics and Logic are important. It is important that all Stoics, for instance, treat certain questions of logic in a certain way. Historically, students would not be accepted into certain schools or by certain teachers if those students did not accept the logical foundations of their teachers.

Moreover, many teachers order logic first, before Physics and before Ethics. So to leave it (or Physics for that matter) out, supposing one were talking about Stoicism, historically Stoic teachers would simply quizzically glance you over and remind you of the importance of logic, even if what you say happens to align with their philosophical tenets. Getting there by accident is fair, but that's not Stoicism.

Re: A Simplified Modern Approach to Stoicism

#6

If anyone is interested in a book on the subject, I really like William Irvine's "A Guide to the Good Life" ( http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/01953... ) I have some extensive book notes here: http://www.quora.com/Leo-Polovets/Exceptionally-long-book-no...

I am currently reading this book and also find it a good modern interpretation. It has a concise background on the stoics and combines and interprets the teachings of many of them in to an easy to understand principles. I bought this in combination with Seneca's "letters of a Stoic" and "Meditations", by Marcus Aurelius thinking it would a good introduction before reading these.

I have noticed many of Stoic practices reproduced or supported by popular religious practices which makes sense if they aid in practitioners feeling the tranquillity/happiness that the stoics sought, even if done through fables and commandments.

Re: A Simplified Modern Approach to Stoicism

#7

If anyone is interested in a book on the subject, I really like William Irvine's "A Guide to the Good Life" ( http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/01953... ) I have some extensive book notes here: http://www.quora.com/Leo-Polovets/Exceptionally-long-book-no...

Personally, I would cut out the middle men. Avoid glossy-covered and over-marketed summaries of other men's work. Grab a copy of Epictetus' discourses and his Enchiridion. Read Aurelius' meditations. Get familiar with Plutarch's Lives.

This will get one started cheaply: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUCRETIUS-EPICTETUS-12-Britannica-Gr... Be aware, this volume includes Lucretius who is not a stoic, rather, a typical reductionist Epicurian. The Enchiridion can also be found cheaply: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Enchiridion-Dover-Thrift-Editions-By... . Here's a fine translation of Plutarch's Lives: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plutarch-Great-Books-of-the-Western-... . These works are cheap and readily available used on eBay and elsewhere. Take advantage of it if you are seriously interested in learning.

Avoid the marketing. Read Knuth or K&R rather than "How to Program in 24 hours", etc. The same goes for philosophy. There's nothing new under the sun. Seek out what's stood the test of time, incorporate it into your fundamentals, and proceed from there.

Re: A Simplified Modern Approach to Stoicism

#8
post #2

Shorter list : - Read the "Epistulæ Morales ad Lucilium" from Seneca - Read the "Bhagavad Gita" to avoid being stuck in a given interpretation. - Shy away from religion. Find the truth by yourself And therefore make your own list of how to live your day. Feeling grateful and trying to see the lord in every being you encounter, friend or foe, is is mine. Also "no man does evil knowingly" seems wrong - sorry, but a tin…

> Also "no man does evil knowingly" seems wrong - sorry, but a tiny minority of people really want to see the world burn.

I think the point is that those people believe the world deserves to burn, or that by burning, it would be a better place. Hence, they are not doing evil while thinking "Ha ha ha, I'm so evil", but genuinely believe they are doing good.

> Shy away from religion. Find the truth by yourself.

You can't find the truth by yourself. It's just too big and complicated. Individuals believing that they have discovered some kind of truth is at the root of a lot of suffering. Going after the truth is a good thing, but you cannot and should not do it alone.

Re: A Simplified Modern Approach to Stoicism

#9
post #8
post #2

Shorter list : - Read the "Epistulæ Morales ad Lucilium" from Seneca - Read the "Bhagavad Gita" to avoid being stuck in a given interpretation. - Shy away from religion. Find the truth by yourself And therefore make your own list of how to live your day. Feeling grateful and trying to see the lord in every being you encounter, friend or foe, is is mine. Also "no man does evil knowingly" seems wrong - sorry, but a tin…

> Also "no man does evil knowingly" seems wrong - sorry, but a tiny minority of people really want to see the world burn. I think the point is that those people believe the world deserves to burn, or that by burning, it would be a better place. Hence, they are not doing evil while thinking "Ha ha ha, I'm so evil", but genuinely believe they are doing good. > Shy away from religion. Find the truth by yourself. You can…

> Hence, they are not doing evil while thinking "Ha ha ha, I'm so evil", but genuinely believe they are doing good.

This is still just as naive, in my opinion. There are plenty of people who knowingly trample others to advance their own selfish goals, who know that it's unfair, and who sincerely don't care.

Re: A Simplified Modern Approach to Stoicism

#10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also "no man does evil knowingly" seems wrong - sorry, but a tiny minority of people really want to see the world burn. I think the point is that those people believe the world deserves to burn, or that by burning, it would be a better place. Hence, they are not doing evil while thinking "Ha ha ha, I'm so evil", but genuinely believe they are doing good. > Shy away from religion. Find the truth by yourself. You can…

> Hence, they are not doing evil while thinking "Ha ha ha, I'm so evil", but genuinely believe they are doing good. This is still just as naive, in my opinion. There are plenty of people who knowingly trample others to advance their own selfish goals, who know that it's unfair, and who sincerely don't care.

Yes, but the point is they do not do evil knowingly, in the sense of comprehending how the nature of their soul came about and determining this is the best course of action under reflection over the space of all possible minds; the evolutionary process endowed them with a cognitive structure that primes them to think that way, and we should mourn the deterministic necessity of them spending time living in that mind and body, but we should never condemn them or call them evil.
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