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DC-area schools consider copyright policy that takes ownership of students’ work

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Re: DC-area schools consider copyright policy that takes ownership of students’ work

#11

Post by DanBC »

tokenadult wrote: post #2

Surely this can't be legal under existing copyright law. From the article, "The District holds common law copyright, at a minimum, to all relevant intellectual property its city and school employees create, a spokeswoman said." I take it that the school district's lawyer was not consulted before that statement was made, or else the lawyer was a doofus about copyright law. There isn't any "common law copyright," in th…

> If a school tells you that you can't do what's right by your child because "it's the law," ask for the citation of the law. If it's really a law, there is a citation, and the law can be looked up. In the United States, under its Anglo-American system of law, the default assumption is individual liberty (and parents rather than schools acting in the interests of minor children), so make sure to check the specific law before believing your freedom is restricted by the law in the manner the school official claims.

Unfortunately they're likely to mumble some semi-related law and then call the police.

Re: DC-area schools consider copyright policy that takes ownership of students’ work

#12

Post by thejteam »

binarymax wrote: post #4

Legality aside, I could go either way on this. Schools are in dire straights financially. While I understand the gut reaction of how nonsensical the proposal sounds - if it raises money for the schools to provide better education, then it may be the lesser of two evils. Maybe a better solution is some kind of joint copyright (if that's even possible)? Where one must get permission from the other if they plan on using…

In this particular case the school system has no financial problems. PG county schools are among the best funded per student in the country.

http://www.gazette.net/article/20120622/NEWS/706229668/0/gaz...

As an aside, with the exception of a few well performing magnet schools, the schools are considered subpar.

Re: DC-area schools consider copyright policy that takes ownership of students’ work

#14

Post by Petrushka »

tokenadult wrote: post #2

Surely this can't be legal under existing copyright law. From the article, "The District holds common law copyright, at a minimum, to all relevant intellectual property its city and school employees create, a spokeswoman said." I take it that the school district's lawyer was not consulted before that statement was made, or else the lawyer was a doofus about copyright law. There isn't any "common law copyright," in th…

PG County is Maryland, not DC. It's the county that wraps around the eastern side of the District, and includes the University of Maryland. The rules of the District don't apply to what they're trying to do. I think the author mentioned them (and those of Montgomery County, PG's far wealthier and higher performing neighbor) to show that the idea wouldn't be possible in those school districts.

Notably, PG County has an awfully run government that presides over a relatively low-income population generally composed of Latino immigrants and African-Americans pushed out of the District itself by rising home prices. I've seen a picture before of the average income levels in the counties surrounding DC. Montgomery, Arlington, Fairfax, and Loudoun counties are all top 10 in the nation. PG sticks out like a sore thumb. Adding to that, they have by far the most racist police force you'll find. A friend of mine has been pulled over and searched multiple times there solely because he is a young black driving a car that doesn't look like it got pulled off the scrap heap. The last thing that county needs is something that stifles the abilities of its younger residents to try and create something new and interesting for their local community and at-large.

Re: DC-area schools consider copyright policy that takes ownership of students’ work

#15

Post by binarymax »

noonespecial wrote: post #5
binarymax wrote: post #4

Legality aside, I could go either way on this. Schools are in dire straights financially. While I understand the gut reaction of how nonsensical the proposal sounds - if it raises money for the schools to provide better education, then it may be the lesser of two evils. Maybe a better solution is some kind of joint copyright (if that's even possible)? Where one must get permission from the other if they plan on using…

So they force you(especially if you're poor or underprivileged) to go to the school, lirerally at the point of a gun with truancy laws, force you to complete the assignments, and then appropriate the work for themselves alone and possibly profit from it. Oh I think there might be a term for that.

That's why I propose the joint copyright 'solution'. The student would also get a cut from any profits made. That seems decent to me.

Re: DC-area schools consider copyright policy that takes ownership of students’ work

#16

Post by noonespecial »

binarymax wrote: post #15
noonespecial wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they force you(especially if you're poor or underprivileged) to go to the school, lirerally at the point of a gun with truancy laws, force you to complete the assignments, and then appropriate the work for themselves alone and possibly profit from it. Oh I think there might be a term for that.

That's why I propose the joint copyright 'solution'. The student would also get a cut from any profits made. That seems decent to me.

Id agree so long as students have a choice. Otherwise, it's just the plantation owner talking about how good the slaves have it because he feeds them so well.

Re: DC-area schools consider copyright policy that takes ownership of students’ work

#17

Post by tokenadult »

DanBC wrote: post #11
tokenadult wrote: post #2

Surely this can't be legal under existing copyright law. From the article, "The District holds common law copyright, at a minimum, to all relevant intellectual property its city and school employees create, a spokeswoman said." I take it that the school district's lawyer was not consulted before that statement was made, or else the lawyer was a doofus about copyright law. There isn't any "common law copyright," in th…

> If a school tells you that you can't do what's right by your child because "it's the law," ask for the citation of the law. If it's really a law, there is a citation, and the law can be looked up. In the United States, under its Anglo-American system of law, the default assumption is individual liberty (and parents rather than schools acting in the interests of minor children), so make sure to check the specific la…

Dan, to the contrary, the parents I have advised in this manner for two decades report good results in getting school districts to back away from illegal restrictions on family decisions once the parents show that they know how to ask about the law. Simply asking for a citation when a government official tells you what to do is enormously helpful. (It may be especially helpful here in Minnesota, where for more than twenty years we have had public school open enrollment and a reasonably easy-going homeschooling statute, thus giving parents the power to shop for a school that fits each child in the family.)

A local friend of mine has a piece of advice that shows her understanding of the world from being a programmer for a large insurance company rather than a lawyer. As she asked for school accommodations for her four children (now all grown up and in higher education or private employment), when told she couldn't get what her children needed, she would say, "Who do I talk to to get an exception?" She understood very well that schools are bureaucratic organizations, and that all bureaucratic organizations have some higher bureaucrat who can make exceptions to rules. (I think she learned that at the insurance company where she does her programming.) I now add her phrase to my parent talks to supplement the more lawyer-like phrase that I mentioned in my first comment in this thread.

Re: DC-area schools consider copyright policy that takes ownership of students’ work

#18

Post by jiggy2011 »

DanBC wrote: post #13
jiggy2011 wrote: post #6

Why would you want to own the IP for a bunch of crappy school projects?

See, for example, the scam for poetry "competitions" and vanity publishing.

I don't see the connection. Vanity publishers make money from the author by basically selling books with a big markup.

Here they are just taking IP (of which 99.999% is going to be basically valueless). The only part that might make money would be selling lesson plans, but that would become a saturated market pretty quick.

Re: DC-area schools consider copyright policy that takes ownership of students’ work

#19

Post by dinkumthinkum »

What possible reason could there be for this, that, in any way, serves the public? Don't these schools have bigger problems than stealing people's work? It seems even having this as a discussion is a waste of public funds.

Re: DC-area schools consider copyright policy that takes ownership of students’ work

#20

Post by tekromancr »

noonespecial wrote: post #10
MichaelApproved wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"force you to complete the assignments." I understand that you're forced to go to school but how are you forced to complete assignments?

Once they get kids into the system, they have a suprising array of coercive methods to get students to perform. Vague threats about future actions, social shaming through posted grades and holding students back as their class moves on, etc. I grant you that hard-core slackers laugh at this until they can get away with dropping out, but a large majority of students will conform to the physiological pressure to comply.

I literally did no (assigned) work in High School, failed every class, and still graduated a year early. It was about 50% moral outrage at the state of our education system, %40 I could teach myself things better, %10 I was a lazy arsehole.
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