Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read • Hacker News Board

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#61

Post by ekianjo » Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 4:01 PM UTC

unalone wrote: post #54

ekianjo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because Capitalism is a system that has put millions/billions of people out of misery and starvation throughout the world (and you can see that, proven again when Communist China started to inject some capitalism in its economy in the 1990s), and summarizing is as simply "greed" just does not do much justice to it.

> because Capitalism is a system that has put millions/billions of people out of misery and starvation throughout the world And meanwhile, it has systematized the misery and starvation of millions and billions of people itself, while – cruelly – being so opportunistic, so seemingly advantageous to the resourceful individual, that it teaches us to despise those who suffer, to see them as somehow beneath us. The contem…

> Your abrupt dismissal of that possibility doesn't make it go away; it just makes you seem like you don't know what you're talking about.

Yet you write this on a computer, a smartphone or a tablet, which has been provided to you at a very low, affordable price thanks to this capitalistic model you seem to despise. And you are the one who is accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#62

Post by ekianjo » Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 4:04 PM UTC

cryptoz wrote: post #57

ekianjo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because Capitalism is a system that has put millions/billions of people out of misery and starvation throughout the world (and you can see that, proven again when Communist China started to inject some capitalism in its economy in the 1990s), and summarizing is as simply "greed" just does not do much justice to it.

Capitalism has also annihilated entire species from the face of the Earth and is a leading, driving force in causing global climate change. Summarizing it as having put billions of people out of misery is not doing it justice.

You probably prefer other systems who focuses on the annihilation of the human race above all ? If you were born in a "capitalist" country you are probably owing to that system the right to be alive nowadays, well fed and educated. Look at how people fare in countries where there is no entrepreneurship, no free markets and no way to invest the fruits of your labor. You ought to travel a little more.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#63

Post by martinced » Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 4:09 PM UTC

kyro wrote: post #20

Agree with other comments here. I've flipped through Wealth of Nations, Origin of Species and others and couldn't keep my focus tethered down. So let me ask you this: What are the top 10 essential reads of today for helping one develop a critical mind and a better understanding of the world around them?

This thread is filled with the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy and it's sad, so I can see where your question is coming from.

I personally like to read books from people who predicted things before they happened and try to understand their mindset.

Understanding finance...

One may not like its writing style but Nicolas Nassim Taleb's "The Black Swan" helped me understand how finance was indeed the crumbs of capitalism that Buffet hates.

Understanding economy...

Another one I love --but it's in french-- is Charles Gave. That economist (definitely not mainstream) did write, in 1999, that the introduction of the common currency in Europe (the Euro) would lead to: "Too many houses in Spain, too many industries in Germany and too many public servants in France. That Spain was going to state default, followed by Greece".

So he got the order wrong about Greece (which already default a first time and which is going to default again) and Spain, but besides that he was spot on.

And you cannot say: "If you take enough economists, one of them is going to predict the future". Because here the prediction was way too precise to be sheer luck. He did explain the precise mechanisms that would lead to that situation (and he did bet his money accordingly and made millions).

Basically after reading that you understand how wrong the Keynes school is and how Krugman totally lost it (yeah, let's mill a $1 trillion coin... Why not mill 26 of them and be done with the public debt right!?).

There are going to be more state defaults in Europe (it's not even opened up for debate), starting with Greece which is going to default again. There's going to either severe inflation or partial state default in the U.S. too unless public spendings are dramatically brought down. No way out.

I'd suggest not to read from people explaining the past or the present. It's not interesting. It's more interesting to take out older writings explaining what's going to happen in the future and why. People able to do that are the most critical thinkers ever.

These writers often use an aggressive tone but you have to bear with it: these people are right and they know it and hardly anyone is listening to them.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#64

Post by yk » Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 4:15 PM UTC

This is a horribly list to read, albeit a very nice list to put in to the front of a book shelf. Most importantly, if one reads only one book on any given subject, then one will only hear of one point of view. A problem that is made worse by selecting classics, which are usually written to make a point instead of summarizing the broader debate. The most obvious example from this list is probably Origin of Species, a work where Darwin did not talk about the evolution of man, because he did not wanted to be drawn into a theological debate.

Additionally the classics carry context, which may or may not be obvious. Here the most obvious example from the list is Adam Smith, who did not write about abstract global markets, as the term is used today, but he did write about a collection of market stalls. Similarly, his thought about government and regulation was informed by his times, the first edition appeared in 1776, the same year as the declaration of independence and thirteen years before the French revolution. So Adam Smith did never write about a modern nation, with formal representation and a process for the transition of power, but he did write about a late feudal society, in which the political power was held by an unchecked former warrior elite.

[ The above does not mean that I am against reading classics, in fact quite the opposite. The problem is just, that trying to get an important idea x, then you should probably read "A modern introduction to x," not the classical book where it first appeared, in an convoluted way embedded into some discussion at that time.]

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#65

Post by lprubin » Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 4:19 PM UTC

unalone wrote: post #54

ekianjo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because Capitalism is a system that has put millions/billions of people out of misery and starvation throughout the world (and you can see that, proven again when Communist China started to inject some capitalism in its economy in the 1990s), and summarizing is as simply "greed" just does not do much justice to it.

> because Capitalism is a system that has put millions/billions of people out of misery and starvation throughout the world And meanwhile, it has systematized the misery and starvation of millions and billions of people itself, while – cruelly – being so opportunistic, so seemingly advantageous to the resourceful individual, that it teaches us to despise those who suffer, to see them as somehow beneath us. The contem…

> that it teaches us to despise those who suffer, to see them as somehow beneath us. The contempt that was once the property of those few at the very, very top has become democratized, so that we may all join in in feeling it.

To me, economics is purely a system of wealth creation and the regulation, or lack there of, of that wealth. I see it as an amoral system. I don't see a society of capitalism and a society of everybody making sure that everybody else is taken care of as mutually exclusive.

Morality is influenced by a wide wide wide variety of isms, movements, culture, media, technology, population size, and famous people. The economic model of a society is certainly one of them but by no means the only issue that matters. I think this can be proven by tracing the moral compasses of various societies whose economic model has stayed roughly the same over a period of say 100 years but morality of the society has drastically changed.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#66

Post by gyardley » Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 4:31 PM UTC

derrida wrote: post #12

I've read some of those books cover to cover (Art of War, the Prince) & other's I've glazed over because they were, well, boring & laborious & I don't believe anybody should be recommending them as things to read for enjoyment (Origin of the Species or The Bible, for instance). So here's my list of 8 for things that you'll probably never finish, but extract huge value from anyway. -Richard Feynman Lectures on Physics…

I wouldn't recommend the King James Version of the Bible for its religious content, not being a Christian and all, but it's essential for understanding half the allusions of English literature. If you haven't, try it.

The 1769 Authorized Version (what you'll surely get if you just buy a KJV Bible) is very readable, the language is beautiful (and, in my opinion, enjoyable) and you'll appreciate your books much more.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#67

Post by yk » Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 4:41 PM UTC

martinced wrote: post #63

kyro wrote: post #20

Agree with other comments here. I've flipped through Wealth of Nations, Origin of Species and others and couldn't keep my focus tethered down. So let me ask you this: What are the top 10 essential reads of today for helping one develop a critical mind and a better understanding of the world around them?

This thread is filled with the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy and it's sad, so I can see where your question is coming from. I personally like to read books from people who predicted things before they happened and try to understand their mindset. Understanding finance... One may not like its writing style but Nicolas Nassim Taleb's "The Black Swan" helped me understand how finance was indeed the crumbs of cap…

> Basically after reading that you understand how wrong the Keynes school is and how Krugman totally lost it (yeah, let's mill a $1 trillion coin... Why not mill 26 of them and be done with the public debt right!?).

I would suggest you read some Krugman ( or Keynes), the entire point of the $1 trillion as opposed to $26 trillion is, that the government owes roughly $1 trillion to itself. So you do not change anything, the coin is just to get around a law that is there to pretend that money is essentially the same stuff for a government as it is for a private citizen.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#68

Post by rdouble » Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 4:42 PM UTC

derrida wrote: post #12

I've read some of those books cover to cover (Art of War, the Prince) & other's I've glazed over because they were, well, boring & laborious & I don't believe anybody should be recommending them as things to read for enjoyment (Origin of the Species or The Bible, for instance). So here's my list of 8 for things that you'll probably never finish, but extract huge value from anyway. -Richard Feynman Lectures on Physics…

Gulliver's Travels is boring and laborious, but TAOCP, William James, GEB, and axiomatised the natural numbers before Peano, made the distinction of cardinal and ordinal before Cantor ?

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#69

Post by gyardley » Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 4:43 PM UTC

LeafStorm wrote: post #33

Happyhippy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are selections for everyone, including 'beginners' which I assume is the reason he selected them. They would have very little quoting other sources with little explanations why. Not a bad selection imo, though I would have thrown in the Torah/Koran as well as the bible to inform you of all the major religions and differences. And maybe remove Art of War for a maths primer like Euclid's Elements or somthing.

Just a note: the Torah is a subset of the Tanakh, which is itself a subset of the Bible. (Christians refer to the Torah as the Pentateuch and the Tanakh as the Old Testament.)

Sure, although if you want to read the Torah / Tanakh as Jews understand it, I wouldn't just pick up a Bible. Assuming you don't read Hebrew, I'd get the New Jewish Publication Society translation.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#70

Post by phaus » Sun, Feb 03, 2013, 4:46 PM UTC

w0utert wrote: post #42

phaus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the middle of a philosophy 101 class. I had been meaning to read the works of Plato, but until now I was busy learning other stuff. I have to say that surprisingly, I have lost all respect for Plato after reading Crito (It's Plato's take on what Socrates' reasons for not escaping his execution.) It contains the most illogical, oversimplified, flat-out erroneous thought processes I've ever encountered. If Crito…

I'm not sure why you were expecting to respect Plato for everything he wrote about. Plato may have been one of the brilliant minds of all times and have produced some of the most valuable bits of Western culture, history and philosophy, but even for his own time the guy had some seriously disturbing ideas about what the world should look like. The Republic for example has been a great inspiration for fascist ideas or…

I didn't expect to agree with him on everything, but I did expect the quality of his writing to be pretty consistent. Crito is often used to illustrate logical reasoning, yet the arguments it presents are so ridiculous that no reasonable, logical person would agree with them.