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Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

nanex.net

131–140 of 291 posts

Re: Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

#131

What is the benefit of trading over ms resolutions. What problem is it solving? Wouldn't trade be more efficient if it were lock stepped - say one trade per hour (per day?): you agree your trade and the exchange processes it on the hour. What would be lost that benefits the pseudo-capitalism of these systems by having such a regime. How would this negatively impact production.

NYSE offers this.

http://www.nyse.com/pdfs/fact_sheet_Matchpoint_Intraday.pdf

Re: Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

#132
post #119

This has nothing to do with the main subject matter of the article but those graphs are almost unintelligible. I didn't even try to decode what they were trying to communicate.

As someone who works in finance (the intended audience) they make perfect sense.

A little help on how to read the 2nd graph or maybe some source material to teach me. I'm not exactly sure how to even begun to research what kind of map it is, it looks like the matrix had an unfortunate mishap.

Re: Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

#133
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am admittedly absolutely naive to the inner workings of the market. So what would happen in the press conference case? You would make your move based on the news knowing that sometime in the next 10 minutes it would be executed. No one else has any advantage so they can't necessarily get it done quicker. The value of short term moves is reduced, so everyone plays with a longer view.

There is one huge problem with this, which is that under no circumstances can you reward people for placing larger orders than they can actually execute. If you do, you encourage people to make large orders in the hope that only part of them will execute, which can have catastrophic consequences if for some reason the whole trade executes in some unexpected case. Any form of lottery is vulnerable to this. If you clam…

Interesting. Thanks for the detailed response. I guess I can always naively assert that traders would figure out how to manage that bit of risk (that more of their trades would execute than they really wanted) but your explanation makes sense. Fastest order wins and, yes, that is arbitrary. Imperfect, but it keeps the market relatively efficient.

Re: Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and of course that also is only possible, when they know the exact time of when the news would go out. So that, they can time their activity just milliseconds before that, using tech.

For a lot of these economic numbers and earnings report, they are provided to news organizations prior to the announcement with instructions that the information cannot be released prior to a certain time. So, for this example, that time was 10:30AM. The moment it hits that time, the reports get pushed out into the newswires and reported on-air. This allows the reporters to digest the numbers and figure out how to re…

So news organizations get this financially sensitive information before traders? Seems an almost too obvious way to make a quick buck.

Re: Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

#135

I really hate that I can't find articles when I need to. However, I have read that investment companies build datacenters as close to internet hubs as possible, to take advantage of the extra milliseconds gained. If I recall correctly, this is notable in Manhattan.

Actually northern New Jersey.

Re: Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who works in finance (the intended audience) they make perfect sense.

A little help on how to read the 2nd graph or maybe some source material to teach me. I'm not exactly sure how to even begun to research what kind of map it is, it looks like the matrix had an unfortunate mishap.

What you are looking at is a graph of the liquidity in the order book over time. A security does not have 1 price it has 2, the bid and the ask. The difference is called the spread. The bottom is showing the amount of liquidity at each price level. I don't know of a good source on how to read these charts since most people build their own viz tools.

Re: Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

#137
post #119

This has nothing to do with the main subject matter of the article but those graphs are almost unintelligible. I didn't even try to decode what they were trying to communicate.

The graphs are brilliantly clear to me, but I have a background in electronic derivatives trading and so am used to staring at wiggling psychedelic surfaces for hours on end. Nanex's audience is algorithmic securities traders. Imagine trying to explain a circuit diagramme to a room of uninitiated economists ("is there a reason the wire goes all squiggly right there?").

"electronic derivatives trading" is the phrase I was looking for. Thanks a bunch

Re: Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

#138
post #27
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CQS has had issues in the past. You should know this. More importantly, why wouldn't you invest in colocations and collect the data yourself using direct feeds (with GPS clock synchronization etc to validate the data)?

We do. You are grossly misinformed. The charts correctly show the sequence and times of this event. I'm not going to engage this discussion further, though pmail is fine.

As a bystander who does not have the background necessary to evaluate either of your claims at face value, I would really like to hear your explanation for why you disagree with his explanation.

Re: Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why exactly shouldn't the guy who's invested in the best hardware have an edge? Should perhaps we also mandate that all software engineers use exactly the same 2004-era Acer Pentium 4 laptop so that any difference in productivity is strictly due to programming skills?

Because the purpose of the stock market is not to give the guy with the best hardware an "edge".

And the remedy for that is for the demographic who believes in "hot streaks" in casinos and professional athletics, who thinks the lottery is a good investment of their cash, and fashions themselves as homebrew "masters of the universe" to listen to Warren Buffet and invest in index funds rather than trying to outcook Bobby Flay in his own kitchen.

Re: Someone got the natural gas report 400 ms early

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little help on how to read the 2nd graph or maybe some source material to teach me. I'm not exactly sure how to even begun to research what kind of map it is, it looks like the matrix had an unfortunate mishap.

What you are looking at is a graph of the liquidity in the order book over time. A security does not have 1 price it has 2, the bid and the ask. The difference is called the spread. The bottom is showing the amount of liquidity at each price level. I don't know of a good source on how to read these charts since most people build their own viz tools.

Awesome, this explaination and electronic derivatives trading lead me on the right path of reading candlestick graphs. I discovered stockcharts.com from doing some basic research and now have a pretty good understanding of them. I won't be trading any time soon but I can at least read it to some extent. Thanks a bunch. Sorry if I got a bit off topic, but I hate not knowing stuff.
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