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The PNG image file format is now more popular than GIF

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Re: The PNG image file format is now more popular than GIF

#41
post #31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because of IE. I know IE sopports transparent PNGs for quite a while, but until not very long ago there were not so many options and people don't really like to upgrade IE apparently.

Binary transparency PNGs (i.e. no separate alpha channel) have worked in IE since at least 6. So except for animation support there really is no reason to use GIF.

[deleted]

Re: The PNG image file format is now more popular than GIF

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's a reproducible issue, have you considered filing a bug?

I assumed this was widely known/accepted. Never considers filing a bug, i assume you mean for the browser right?

I've experienced this under Firefox, and on hardware that has no excuse for breaking a sweat on any webpage. It's usually pages where there are a large number of animated GIFs (e.g. [1]) Once all the GIFs are loaded and complete one animation cycle, everything's fine.

[1]: http://www.totalprosports.com/2012/12/14/the-50-best-sports-...

Re: The PNG image file format is now more popular than GIF

#43
post #7

More numerous perhaps, but not more important--going by the insane explosion in animated GIFs in the last two years... I think folks would have stuck by JPEG if it offered transparency.

That's hard to say. Saving the 512x512 FireFox logo, for example (with white background for fair comparison) at 99% quality JPEG from GIMP saves less than 5% space over PNG, and for images with even more solid white and simple gradients, PNG will beat high quality JPEG.

Even more importantly, frequency-domain compression is really not a very good alternative for most alpha channels for two main reasons.

First, most alpha channels are dominated by large regions of full transparency or full opacity. PNG thrives under those conditions. JPEG does OK.

Second, ring artifacts are a big problem for alpha channels. Whereas a ring artifact in a chroma channel will often be completely imperceptible to the viewer, a ring artifact on an alpha channel can turn transparent pixels opaque. Unless you correct the non-alpha channels to account for those artifacts on the alpha channel, you'll end up with noticeable black halos, even at relatively high quantization. That correction is difficult, and even if you do it well, the results are not stellar.

So while a hybrid format might work well, JPEG + alpha is not as simple as it sounds.

Re: The PNG image file format is now more popular than GIF

#45
post #39

And this particular circle is complete. Of course the patents that were the heart of such controversy are now expired so GIF code is no longer 'not-open' but it has a bad reputation so we don't play with it any more :-). I like PNG though, the library development, while a bit rocky at first, matured quite nicely and about 5 years ago crossed the point where enough people took the time to figure out how to use it that…

Yup, great point. I think if there weren't patent concerns over GIF years ago, there wouldn't have been nearly as wide support for the format, which means far fewer people would be using it today.

Sounds like there's need for a startup that fakes patents for obsolete file formats to create pressure for the industry to switch to technically superior alternatives. Who wants to fund me?

Re: The PNG image file format is now more popular than GIF

#47

What happened to JPEG 2000? It supports lossless too, but never seen it implemented on browsers.

The image quality improvements with JPEG2000 were mathematical but not really perceptual, see http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~jakulin/jpeg/artifacts.htm

Re: The PNG image file format is now more popular than GIF

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assumed this was widely known/accepted. Never considers filing a bug, i assume you mean for the browser right?

Are you sure you're not referring to animated GIFs ? The slow FPS rate occurs as they load, and is contained to the GIF itself. Surely a static GIF would not reduce your browser FPS.

Don't be so sure it's a loading issue. I very often have animated gifs play very laggily the first time they run, even when they were already fully downloaded. And across multiple browsers I have seen issues playing gifs smoothly when there is anything else in the browser using CPU.

Re: The PNG image file format is now more popular than GIF

#50

I really wonder why GIFs are still around. Apart for being used as short videos for funny things they have not a huge use afaik. They really feel like an old technology. They are also a pain to support on android.

I wonder what the pain point that is stopping the wider public from switching to a real video format for those short clips is. Given that real video codecs have much better compression at comparable quality, is it just the lack of simple tiny video hosting options comparable to imgur? tags being harder to use on random posting platforms than ? Chroma subsampling "blurring" clips with sharp edges like from cartoons or 2d videogames? Something less obvious?
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