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We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

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Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#131

Post by jetti »

While I agree that we need to be more sympathetic to those with depression, but I think it needs to extend way past just depression and on to all mental illness. Mental illnesses cause distorted thought patterns and it isn't the fault of the individual who has that mental illness, just as it isn't the fault of the Type 1 Diabetic that they have their illness.

Speaking from first hand experience, it can be overwhelming and lonely to suffer from mental illness. I have to hide my thoughts from others (including my own wife) because of fear that they won't understand and that they may think of me as a monster.

We have come a long way from where we used to be regarding mental illness (such as blaming poor parenting), but we still have a long ways to go.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#132

Post by Osmium »

The trouble with so many mental illnesses is that there's no good diagnostic test to help identify sufferers, and many go undetected or untreated until it's too late. There must be something that can be done about this. It might help those not personally affected by depression to understand its true nature better too.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#133

Post by Osmium »

jdietrich wrote: post #130

Fuck this shit. We need to have sympathy. Not because we've diagnosed someone with a disease, but because they're a person. Rates of depression are skyrocketing all over the developed world and whatever we're doing clearly isn't working. Personally, I think the most obvious issue is that a group of intelligent people have simply accepted the notion that what's relevant isn't someone's life circumstances, but some vag…

> Personally, I think the most obvious issue is that a group of intelligent people have simply accepted the notion that what's relevant isn't someone's life circumstances, but some vague and baseless notion of "abnormal brain chemistry".

How about people who lead objectively wonderful lives, with good jobs and happy families, but still suffer from deep depression? The problem, if any, seems to be the other way round: that some people think only people will "bad" lives can suffer from depression, and everyone else should just "get over it." That's what seems wrong to me--and if identifying "abnormal brain chemistry" as a cause of depression helps people realise that anyone can be a victim then so be it.

Clearly if someone is suffering then external factors can make it so much worse, but that doesn't mean depression needs an external cause. Sometimes it just is.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#134

Post by TheCapn »

I live with someone who suffers from depression. The idea that it is a disease is somewhat welcoming in that it allows people to rationalize that their actions are not entirely their fault, but at the same time it almost hurts those suffering because of the complacent attitudes it breeds.

Often times, before a person is known to suffer from depression people will comment on their behaviors/mannerisms as if they're abnormal. Once they realize the issue they are sympathetic but change to "they can't help it, they're depressed." In many ways this can be true, its uncontrollable at times, but for other times they need support, not sympathy.

Support means helping them feel better about what ails them. It means distracting them from their worries with things you know will lift their spirits and help them see the lighter sides of things. When you can't lift their spirits you need to be there until they can move on naturally. A person suffering from depression can focus on a negative aspect of life so intently that it is damaging but as a supportive role in their life you need to look past that.

Don't sympathize, be active in supporting them or get out of the way so someone willing to can.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#135

Post by dr_ »

Part of the problem is how doctors, and especially psychiatrists, have approached treating depression. There are many people who simply get down once in a while, in response to a particular event or series of events, the way most of us do at some point in our lives. If these people come across a psychiatrist, there's a decent chance they will end up on anti depressants when they likely just need some counseling and time. They should not be classified as depressed, maybe a transient mood disorder, but who knows if insurance would pay for that. That takes away from people who truly suffer from clinical depression, a real medical condition which should be separately classified as such. If you throw them into the basket of people who are just down once in a while, you do them a great disservice, because society then looks at them as someone who just can't deal with issues and need a crutch in the form of medications. The people with real clinical depression are the ones who are at risk of committing suicide. Psychiatrists can figure out which is which usually, not always, but instead they treat everyone the same, and as a result less time is spent on those who need it the most (unless they end up getting hospitalized)

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#136

Post by foobarqux »

DanBC wrote: post #97
lhnz wrote: post #58

A lot of uniformed people in this thread. You can't generalise as much as you all do. You have to understand that people experience life in very different ways. I have experienced depression [0] but I can't speak for anybody else other than to say I know it's hard and keep on . The real problem with depression is that everybody wants to wash their hands of it. "There are doctors that we can pass these sick people to.…

I didn't downvote you. > Go for CBT and you'll find it largely amounts to filling out forms on your mental state with tickboxes that don't really apply to you, while somebody tries to find out ways that your thinking is twisted. This is a poor version of CBT. Any practitioner providing CBT like this is doing it wrong. CBT is not about telling you that you are wrong or that your thinking is twisted. CBT is about explo…

CBT seems to be based on the idea that "wrong thought" breeds negative emotions. For example "I always screw up" should be replaced with "I screwed up this time". But if something like "I screw up on X most of the time" or "I am in the bottom percentile for X" are statements that may occur to an analytical person that are objectively true and may directly cause negative emotions. My understanding of CBT is that it suggests replacing these thoughts with positive forms like "sometimes I succeed at X" and "I'm better than most people at Y" (even if Y is something neither you nor anyone else cares about).

So CBT is fine if your thoughts do not reflect reality but if they seem to encourage self-delusion. And maybe that's fine, after all what else is there than perception. But many intelligent analytical people simply cannot willfully deceive themselves.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#137

Post by pge »

jdietrich wrote: post #130

Fuck this shit. We need to have sympathy. Not because we've diagnosed someone with a disease, but because they're a person. Rates of depression are skyrocketing all over the developed world and whatever we're doing clearly isn't working. Personally, I think the most obvious issue is that a group of intelligent people have simply accepted the notion that what's relevant isn't someone's life circumstances, but some vag…

I appreciate where you are coming from, but I think it is wrong to dismiss the chemistry component. Having had close family members diagnosed with depression (and having lost a friend to suicide), I found myself amazed at the degree to which chemicals in the body do play a role. I have seen two cases of dramatic behavior changes in people who had no change in external life experiences (and extraordinarily happy life circumstances at that with strong and deeply caring support networks), and medication immediately corrected the behavior changes.

I do not mean to discount your primary point - I agree that we all need to take care of each other, but all the caring in the world cant change brain chemistry, and sometimes that really is where the problem is.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#138

Post by chongli »

pge wrote: post #137
jdietrich wrote: post #130

Fuck this shit. We need to have sympathy. Not because we've diagnosed someone with a disease, but because they're a person. Rates of depression are skyrocketing all over the developed world and whatever we're doing clearly isn't working. Personally, I think the most obvious issue is that a group of intelligent people have simply accepted the notion that what's relevant isn't someone's life circumstances, but some vag…

I appreciate where you are coming from, but I think it is wrong to dismiss the chemistry component. Having had close family members diagnosed with depression (and having lost a friend to suicide), I found myself amazed at the degree to which chemicals in the body do play a role. I have seen two cases of dramatic behavior changes in people who had no change in external life experiences (and extraordinarily happy life…

If it's only chemistry, why is it so much more of a problem in the developed world? Is there an unstated implication of a potential environmental cause?

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#139

Post by cnlwsu »

Osmium wrote: post #133
jdietrich wrote: post #130

Fuck this shit. We need to have sympathy. Not because we've diagnosed someone with a disease, but because they're a person. Rates of depression are skyrocketing all over the developed world and whatever we're doing clearly isn't working. Personally, I think the most obvious issue is that a group of intelligent people have simply accepted the notion that what's relevant isn't someone's life circumstances, but some vag…

> Personally, I think the most obvious issue is that a group of intelligent people have simply accepted the notion that what's relevant isn't someone's life circumstances, but some vague and baseless notion of "abnormal brain chemistry". How about people who lead objectively wonderful lives, with good jobs and happy families, but still suffer from deep depression? The problem, if any, seems to be the other way round:…

Maybe good job and family isn't the only factors in leading a happy life?

Not that I agree fully that brain chemistry isn't a factor. That said, the fact that wealthier countries have higher depression rates (according to WHO) does make me think there is something non-biological involved.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#140

Post by frontfunder »

This touches home base. 2 of my friends committed suicide the past 3 years (2009, 2010), due to untreated or misdiagnosed depression and other issues. In December of 2012 my 17 y old daughter attempted suicide, for no apparent reason as per the "specialists" "opinion". Since my daughter is not with me, for the first time in my life I've experienced the true feeling of loosing someone very dear to me. It's like the Universe crushes your last breath out of you and there is nothing you can do. It's easy to judge depressed people and to brush it aside. It is very hard to understand it and know how to support it, especially when the person with depression does not want any help.
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