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We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

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121–130 of 184 posts

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#121
Depression is partly biological-- the tendency that way surely is-- but it's also a natural outgrowth of a society that doesn't forgive mistakes and that tests people not based on peak capability or creativity, but on breaking point.

Somehow, we've conflated character and loyalty (which are important) with the willingness to suffer needlessly in the name of subordination and whatever the fuck "team player" means.

The brogrammer culture and unnecessary long hours of Corporate America are all about testing people based on their decline curves, not peak performance. It's competing to suffer rather than competing to excel. Who is the first to crack? Fire him. Who is the last to break? Promote him. It's ridiculous and of course it's going to lead to an "epidemic" of mental illness.

In the corporate world, we promote based on participation in shared suffering (i.e. who stays until 1:30am to meet an arbitrary deadline) rather than talent, and we kick people when they're down, which is why it's impossible for someone to get back into the career game after even a short time outside of it (maternity, illness, depression). Of course we're going to have our best people dropping like flies.

Depression and anxiety disorders have always existed, but they don't need to be this common. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that at least half of the problem is caused by social and economic forces. These problems are biological at root, but social factors tend to modulate the severity that people experience.

Mark Suster deserves major props for speaking out about this. I've criticized him in the past, but I'm starting to like the guy.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#122

Thank you, Mark, for writing this. I have lost three close friends in the past three months to depression. Their deaths were so similar it was shocking; they were all among the most brilliant people I had known, and all had been suffering from depression almost their entire lives. At the funeral of the one who was closest to me, another girl told a story of how on one day when his depression was particularly bad, he…

> Recognize your brain lies to you Thank you for re-emphasizing this. I believe it is the single most important bit of knowledge we can have about depression. My wife has been struggling with depression on and off for years, and it always frustrates me how she in the depressed periods seemingly belittles and obliterates all the good things that happen around her, while all inconveniences and imperfections, big or sma…

Hi

I went/going through exactly the same scenario you had. The main point I took (and it took me a few years to do so) is that when she starts on a depressing spiral, no matter how much I love her, I need to separate myself from it. Be slightly colder towards her problem and focus on myself, still take care of herself but not be sucked in too her 'imaginary' problems (like being late for something, or something at home isn't perfect), while that may seem harsh, it was the only thing that worked for me) I started with depressive/suicide thoughts after years of this situation when I always lived a relatively stress free and happy life and I couldn't take it anymore. I explained to her this, and how, even though it maybe be worse for her, it was better for myself and our child if at least I was able to remain 'saner'. It is still hard as well.

As toby mentioned, depression really is contagious. Maybe not 'I'm going to blow my head off' contagious, but after a few years dealing almost 24 hours with someone you love that is depressed, your outcome of life ends so messed up you start spiralling too.

All the luck toby! Bruno

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#123
Depression happens for many reasons. We do need to have sympathy because the depth of depression varies from person to person.

Some of it can be genetic and I think it can also be copied from other people or passed on. That is why if you hang around with happy people you have a tendency to be happier.

One of the things I noticed in my successful peers is that they go through a period of depression before great periods of productivity or creativity. The depths of depressions or "pullbacks" vary from person to person but most of them show that trait before periods of greatness.

IMO, depression is increasing because pressure is increasing on the average individual in general. From society, to our peers, from the media, from our own competitive nature we are putting more pressure on ourselves to perform or not perform via rebelling.

I am not a doctor, but I know when one of my friends or peers say they are depressed, it is taken very seriously. We all go out of our way to support that person.

Life does go on. Life does change. Sometimes it is darkest before the dawn. Never give up.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#124
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny. For me, I get depressed and turned off when I see too much peace, happiness, and love crap in media. Maybe it's because I'm part of the generation who's grown skeptical of everything in media, but I definitely prefer the darker, sarcastic side of content. A John Lennon style love/peace-fest sounds like an absolute nightmare to me. No thanks.

Funny. For me, I get depressed and turned off when I see too much peace, happiness, and love crap in media. I tend to be the same way. If I was as depressed as I as a few years I would be actively hostile toward the vast majority of the otherwise well-intentioned posts on this submission.

Yeah, but I'm not depressed. It's just that I can only take saccharin in small doses.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#125
Let me preface this with: I have first hand experience of depression, I don't think it's just sadness and I'm absolutely sympathetic toward those who with depression.

But...

My thinking about mental illness changed a lot after reading a book called Crazy Like Us [1]. It doesn't talk about depression specifically - it's a collection of case studies on how different mental illnesses have been experienced/handled/treated by different societies around the world, and how western understandings of mental illness have generally displaced existing cultural understandings, not always for the better.

The major argument of the book is that the Western view of conditions such as depression as 'mental illness' has been counter-productive to attempts to de-stigmatize such conditions. The author also makes a convincing argument that it's also made recovery less likely for a lot of sufferers.

And to me that makes a lot of sense. Many other cultures view emotional suffering as a normal part of human life. In the West we view it as an unnatural state. We think that by detaching the condition from the sufferer, we're de-stigmatizing it, but the sufferer ends up more stigmatized because... now they are considered mentally ill. And they have less hope of their situation improving, because we're telling them that there is something biologically wrong with them.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Like-Us-Globalization-American/d...

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#126

This essay is making a logical fallacy. The implicit assumption is that if a person is in a state which falls under the category "illness" they deserve sympathy, while they might otherwise not. Unfortunately, the essay does not define it's terms, nor does address why depression specifically deserves sympathy. Near as I can tell, it's just an application of the noncentral fallacy. Overall, a pretty terrible essay. Mor…

All I have to say is actually in the lead paragraph of the Wikipedia article:

"Sympathy is an extension of empathic concern, or the perception, understanding, and reaction to the distress or need of another human being. This empathic concern is driven by a switch in viewpoint, from a personal perspective to the perspective of another group or individual who is in need. Empathy and sympathy are often used interchangeably, but the two terms have distinct origins and meanings. Empathy refers to the understanding and sharing of a specific emotional state with another person. Sympathy does not require the sharing of the same emotional state. Instead, sympathy is a concern for the well-being of another. Although sympathy may begin with empathizing with the same emotion another person is feeling, sympathy can be extended to other emotional states."

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sympathy&oldid...

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong, wrong, wrong. Sometimes people get down or get "the blues" but this is something very much different from major clinical depression. Depression has many aspects but one of the most important is a chemical imbalance in the brain. It's not just a feeling or an emotion, it's a fundamental change to the way your brain works. And episodes of major depression can last for years, even decades.

Depression has many aspects but one of the most important is a chemical imbalance in the brain. If this is the case, there should be a chemical test to determine whether a person suffers from it. Does such a test exist? I'm unaware of it, but I'd love to read more. (I'm not asking if it's clinically usable, but merely whether the specific chemicals and levels are known. If they are not known, then "chemical imbalance…

how about just doing a tiny bit of research: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_of_depression ??

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#128
post #109
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote you. > Go for CBT and you'll find it largely amounts to filling out forms on your mental state with tickboxes that don't really apply to you, while somebody tries to find out ways that your thinking is twisted. This is a poor version of CBT. Any practitioner providing CBT like this is doing it wrong. CBT is not about telling you that you are wrong or that your thinking is twisted. CBT is about explo…

Unfortunately, as it is practiced, this IS what CBT ends up being a good deal of the time. CBT has an implicit, and sometimes explicit, mechanistic view of human nature. This can come off as extremely judgmental to vulnerable and intelligent clients. Other approaches, like Motivational Interviewing, adopt a neutral stance that offers the potential for clients to actually explore their feelings instead of just getting…

i am doing CBT (not often though, busy travelling work schedule). I suffer from bipolar I, and while the medication was the one thing that just completely changed my life, CBT is there to help me to:

- figure out my mood. this is about keeping checklists on how long i sleep, how i feel, if i took my medication, if i ate correctly. this sounds terribly stupid, but it is very hard for me to even understand what i am feeling. seeing a little graph that tells me "you have been sleeping 16 hours a day for the last 2 weeks, and now you are barely able to sleep for 3 hours, something is going on" is very helpful.

- figure out what i need to do when certain patterns have been recognized. this is for example upping up on sports, being careful about diet, going out to see people when i'm in the down phase. and conversely cutting down on sports, going out, meditation (which makes me way too energetic and stimulated), stimulants when being too far up.

- figuring out my own personal triggers and signs for depression. this is starting to come along, and these are kind of "personal" things. if i want a new tatoo, or learn a new skill or programming language, i should be careful because this is what usually accompanies mania.

it also involves meeting with other people with the same illness, and just for a few hours every year feeling that you are not the only one in that mess.

an interesting thing about the mood graphs is suddenly realizing that a lot of these mood swings actually come out of the blue, or are more related to seasonal effects. it is my brain tricking me into finding causes and patterns and reasons. i don't want to commit suicide because nobody loves me, it's more i think nobody loves me because i am depressed because i haven't gone out for 2 weeks and missed out on my medication 3 days in a row. or because it is december.

i find CBT (at least with the practictioner i have) to be a very no-bullshit pragmatic approach to handling the psychological side of the illness.

but seriously (and in a way, thank god i have bipolar), medication works extremely well, and the one i take (lamictal) has almost no side effect.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#129
post #107
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even if you move past the paralysis, trying to cure oneself of depression is like trying to debug the operating system of your mind using a debugger running the exact same flawed logic that you're trying to debug! Worse, those bugs are live and their nature is to slowly but surely corrupt the rest of the system software pertaining to beliefs, memory, perception and thought processing. Eventually you reach a point…

I just wanted to reply to give another endorsement to David Burns' Feeling Good ( http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-New-Mood-Therapy/dp/03808... ) - I personally use the Feeling Good Handbook ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452281326 ) which is the exact same thing but a little condensed. It's a big book which can be hard to tackle with depression. Guys, if you're suffering from depression or anxiety, this is th…

Agreed, strongly recommended. My Mom's a librarian, and she's given it to dozens of people over the years; back in the 1990s she even bought a dozen paperbacks on sale and would mail them to friends who were having problems.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#130
Fuck this shit.

We need to have sympathy. Not because we've diagnosed someone with a disease, but because they're a person.

Rates of depression are skyrocketing all over the developed world and whatever we're doing clearly isn't working. Personally, I think the most obvious issue is that a group of intelligent people have simply accepted the notion that what's relevant isn't someone's life circumstances, but some vague and baseless notion of "abnormal brain chemistry".

The idea of depression is a miserable cop-out, it's simply victim-blaming. We say that there is something wrong with their brains, rather than saying that there is something wrong with society. If someone is unhappy, we need to support them. It is a dismal failure of our humanity if we require the justification of medical necessity to show basic compassion.

Swartz had obvious reasons to be miserable and obvious reasons to want to kill himself. We failed him, we fucked up. He didn't die of a disease, he killed himself because he quite justifiably felt that the circumstances of his life were intolerable. We didn't do enough as a community to support him and protect him. He was a young and vulnerable man, bearing the wrath of a spiteful government. It's shameful for us to even consider for a moment that there might be something wrong with Swartz's brain, when our failures to care for him are so obvious.

If we need a scientific explanation for why we should care about each other, that's our problem. If we require a doctor's say-so to provide support for someone in difficulty, that's our disease.

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