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Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid

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Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid

#21

Post by mietek »

the1 wrote: post #20
cmadan wrote: post #4

When I was working in New York City, I always found employee secrecy over the salaries pretty interesting. It seemed like a taboo to tell someone your salary or ask them what they're paid. I understand why employers would want to disincentive salary disclosures but employees? Your peers salary is clear indication of your valuation to the company and there should be every incentive to share. Back home in India, pretty…

asking what you make is like asking how often you get laid. and whom.

> asking what you make is like asking how often you get laid. and whom.

Yes, as long as you consider your career to be an extension of your penis.

This does seem to be a popular point of view in English-speaking countries.

Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid

#22

Post by colmvp »

lemming wrote: post #9
cmadan wrote: post #4

When I was working in New York City, I always found employee secrecy over the salaries pretty interesting. It seemed like a taboo to tell someone your salary or ask them what they're paid. I understand why employers would want to disincentive salary disclosures but employees? Your peers salary is clear indication of your valuation to the company and there should be every incentive to share. Back home in India, pretty…

What I also found weird in NYC is that people can be really cagey about their rent, because our have a rent ceiling that most landlords won't let you go past, and that's a multiple of your salary. So if someone's paying X amount of rent, you know that their salary is at least Y. It's really strange.

Really? I didn't notice this at all while living there. And it's also hard to peg someones rent with respect to their salary because some people chose to live beyond their means while others would potentially live 'cheaply' in order to save enough to buy a place.

Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid

#25

Post by jackowayed »

rorrr wrote: post #16
aston wrote: post #3

Near the bottom of this article is an interesting post mortem of RethinkDB's transparent salary policy. When it was posted years ago [1] folks here took pretty kindly to it, though some were skeptical [2]. I'm kinda disappointed (who doesn't like to know?) but also not very surprised that it didn't work out. Negotiation doesn't work super well if the other players have complete information about your strategy. [1] ht…

Looking at their salary model, I think they got it very very wrong: Position | Salary | Stock Options ———————————————+———————————————+———————————————— Intern | 50K - 60K, | prorated N/A Engineer I | 70K - 80K | 0.25% - 0.75% Engineer II | 85K - 100K | 1.0% - 1.5% Engineer III | 105K - 125K | 1.75% - 2.25% Your highest-level engineer makes only twice as much as your intern (stocks are worthless, on average). That make…

I'm not sure it's as insane as you think.

First, interns at big-name tech companies are highly overpaid for the work the company gets now; it's seen more as a hiring cost than a salary. The company pays ~$50k (~20k is three month's salary; add in housing stipend, taxes, and overhead) per intern in the hopes that a decent proportion of them will be back. Those that are back are solid engineers that are known quantities; false positives should be much more rare than in your general hiring process because you get to see them work in your company for three months before deciding whether to make a full-time offer. Given how hard and expensive engineer recruiting is, this is an ok deal for a lot of companies. But regardless, comparing to intern salary isn't meaningful because few companies actually believe that they are paying for what the intern will produce in their three months when they pay top dollar for elite interns.

Furthermore, while higher salaries are certainly available, those salaries don't seem absurdly low for the stage of company they were (tiny staff, no product released). Most companies at that early of a stage do expect employees to accept a nontrivial cut from their market rate in return for more interesting work, more autonomy, and fairly significant (if high-risk) equity.

Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid

#26

Post by InAnEmergency »

jackowayed wrote: post #25
rorrr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at their salary model, I think they got it very very wrong: Position | Salary | Stock Options ———————————————+———————————————+———————————————— Intern | 50K - 60K, | prorated N/A Engineer I | 70K - 80K | 0.25% - 0.75% Engineer II | 85K - 100K | 1.0% - 1.5% Engineer III | 105K - 125K | 1.75% - 2.25% Your highest-level engineer makes only twice as much as your intern (stocks are worthless, on average). That make…

I'm not sure it's as insane as you think. First, interns at big-name tech companies are highly overpaid for the work the company gets now; it's seen more as a hiring cost than a salary. The company pays ~$50k (~20k is three month's salary; add in housing stipend, taxes, and overhead) per intern in the hopes that a decent proportion of them will be back. Those that are back are solid engineers that are known quantitie…

Yep, I was hired by a company where I did an internship and was actually paid slightly less as a full-time employee than as an intern (more benefits, though). As an intern I made $40/hr, hired full-time at $80k/yr.

Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid

#27

Post by zuppy »

eshvk wrote: post #13
dsymonds wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing stopping you from talking to other employees about salaries. It's a myth that is propagated by companies in order to keep you in the dark about what they are paying other people, to deprive you of information, and to keep you at a disadvantage in any negotiation.

Also, it is very much a western thing. I have a lot of Indian friends and they happily trade salary information amongst each other. This reduces any informational asymmetry that exists in such situations.

I don't know if it's only a western thing. I'm in Eastern Europe and we still consider this subject a taboo (at least in IT).

edit: To be more clear, you can talk about it with friends but not with your colleagues.

Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid

#28

Post by philwelch »

InAnEmergency wrote: post #26
jackowayed wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it's as insane as you think. First, interns at big-name tech companies are highly overpaid for the work the company gets now; it's seen more as a hiring cost than a salary. The company pays ~$50k (~20k is three month's salary; add in housing stipend, taxes, and overhead) per intern in the hopes that a decent proportion of them will be back. Those that are back are solid engineers that are known quantitie…

Yep, I was hired by a company where I did an internship and was actually paid slightly less as a full-time employee than as an intern (more benefits, though). As an intern I made $40/hr, hired full-time at $80k/yr.

Figure 10 days PTO and holidays, 40 $/h * 40 h/wk * 50 wk/yr = 80 K$/yr. You made the same amount. OK, maybe you work more than 40 hours a week, but if you're salaried you don't account for that anyway.

Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid

#29

Post by onemorepassword »

Nate75Sanders wrote: post #23
diminish wrote: post #19

there are 2 types of people in the office, happy people and those who know the salaries of others.

And the first is exactly what managers want -- engineers who have no idea, whatsoever, what they're worth.

Quite the contrary. If an engineer asks for considerably less than they're worth, that goes into the "may be out of touch with his profession" column.

With the exception of starters and a few semi-autistic outliers, engineers that have no idea what they're worth generally aren't the best of engineers. Not asking for it however is a different matter.

Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid

#30

Post by dawidw »

zuppy wrote: post #27
eshvk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it is very much a western thing. I have a lot of Indian friends and they happily trade salary information amongst each other. This reduces any informational asymmetry that exists in such situations.

I don't know if it's only a western thing. I'm in Eastern Europe and we still consider this subject a taboo (at least in IT). edit: To be more clear, you can talk about it with friends but not with your colleagues.

It's not a taboo thing. In my contracts I've had always clause that all the information are confidential, including salary amount. And I can be sued by company if I break the agreement.
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