In my last job I was in a position where I got to see all the salary wrangling that goes on behind the scenes, and it was pretty awful. You get people with power dishing out preferential treatment to their mates, you get situations that are incredibly unfair but for whatever reason can't be easily resolved, and you get a lot of gossiping and speculation that is wildly unproductive for a company. I've never worked anywhere with salary transparency but I'd love to try it - I think with the right people it could work well but I'm sure there's plenty of scope for petty jealousies of other kinds. But I did come away with the fact that the secrecy in many cases is often to hide things that your average worker is going to be offended by, i.e. how much executives are paid.
Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid
11–20 of 51 posts
Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid
#12I once did a short stint at a phone survey company that specialised in health and social welfare surveys. I wasn't on this particular survey crew, but I remember a colleague telling me that it was strange - a stranger rings up and with your consent conducts a 20-minute anonymous survery on the subject of abuse, sexual or otherwise, that the respondant suffered as a child.
It was a delicate survey and required a fair bit of rapport building, and lots of 'I need to remind you that the next question is voluntary'... but we were still getting plenty of respondants, and the weird thing was that despite being a (relatively) anonymous stranger with which you have just shared some sensitive, deep secrets about childhood abuse, the question that most balked at was the 'income level' question in the demographic rundown at the end.
Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid
#13I've always felt uncomfortable about how employees are not supposed to talk to each other about their salaries. To me, it reeks of manipulation feels just like saying to a child "Here's some candy, but you have to promise not to tell anyone I gave it to you, OK" ugh.
There's nothing stopping you from talking to other employees about salaries. It's a myth that is propagated by companies in order to keep you in the dark about what they are paying other people, to deprive you of information, and to keep you at a disadvantage in any negotiation.
Also, it is very much a western thing. I have a lot of Indian friends and they happily trade salary information amongst each other. This reduces any informational asymmetry that exists in such situations.
Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid
#14Near the bottom of this article is an interesting post mortem of RethinkDB's transparent salary policy. When it was posted years ago [1] folks here took pretty kindly to it, though some were skeptical [2]. I'm kinda disappointed (who doesn't like to know?) but also not very surprised that it didn't work out. Negotiation doesn't work super well if the other players have complete information about your strategy. [1] ht…
Hey, I'm slava @ rethink. If you have questions about how things went, I'm happy to answer.
Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid
#15I once did a short stint at a phone survey company that specialised in health and social welfare surveys. I wasn't on this particular survey crew, but I remember a colleague telling me that it was strange - a stranger rings up and with your consent conducts a 20-minute anonymous survery on the subject of abuse, sexual or otherwise, that the respondant suffered as a child. It was a delicate survey and required a fair…
I think our culture (well, American, capitalist society is all I can really comment on) has a very strong implied link between income and worth/value. We have magazines that routinely have lists of the highest paid / richest people. People give incredible leeway to highly paid execs, as if due to the number of zeros on their paycheck they clearly have to be right/smart. There are sayings like "that decision was made above my paygrade", that seem to show there is a pretty tight linkage, mentally, between income and value as a human.
I don't agree with this mindset at all, mainly because I don't believe most organizations are truly meritocratic in any objective sense. It's a good PR story, but people, evolutionarily, tend to "look out for their own", for whatever traits puts someone in that in-group. I have seen many examples of people espousing meritocracy but clearly considering those with the most "merit" as being one in the same with "those they already seem to like", coincidentally enough. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, with balance. I think a 100% meritocratic org would be lacking in basic humanity and kind of a terrible place to work. All humans make mistakes, have struggles, have setbacks, etc...
Even with that being said, and me not believing in the income -> value/worth link in general, I would not be comfortable talking about my salary with most friends/family. I live a comfortable life with little stress about money, but bragging about that (which even trying to downplay it sounds like a humblebrag) seems wrong somehow.
Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid
#16Near the bottom of this article is an interesting post mortem of RethinkDB's transparent salary policy. When it was posted years ago [1] folks here took pretty kindly to it, though some were skeptical [2]. I'm kinda disappointed (who doesn't like to know?) but also not very surprised that it didn't work out. Negotiation doesn't work super well if the other players have complete information about your strategy. [1] ht…
Looking at their salary model, I think they got it very very wrong:
Position | Salary | Stock Options
———————————————+———————————————+————————————————
Intern | 50K - 60K, | prorated N/A
Engineer I | 70K - 80K | 0.25% - 0.75%
Engineer II | 85K - 100K | 1.0% - 1.5%
Engineer III | 105K - 125K | 1.75% - 2.25%
Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid
#17I once did a short stint at a phone survey company that specialised in health and social welfare surveys. I wasn't on this particular survey crew, but I remember a colleague telling me that it was strange - a stranger rings up and with your consent conducts a 20-minute anonymous survery on the subject of abuse, sexual or otherwise, that the respondant suffered as a child. It was a delicate survey and required a fair…
I think our culture (well, American, capitalist society is all I can really comment on) has a very strong implied link between income and worth/value. We have magazines that routinely have lists of the highest paid / richest people. People give incredible leeway to highly paid execs, as if due to the number of zeros on their paycheck they clearly have to be right/smart. There are sayings like "that decision was made…
>I would not be comfortable talking about my salary with most friends/family.
In my family, it was always taboo to talk about money --my father hardly ever discussed money with friends (that I recall). So it was instilled in me that "money-talk" was somewhat "vulgar". To this day, I can only guess my siblings' fiscal positions.
On the other hand, when I lived in the East (Asia), people there openly talked about money/salary, etc. It was one of the acceptable topics at personal intrductions, in addition to where are you from, what do you do and have you eaten.
So, I think it's totally cultural.
Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think our culture (well, American, capitalist society is all I can really comment on) has a very strong implied link between income and worth/value. We have magazines that routinely have lists of the highest paid / richest people. People give incredible leeway to highly paid execs, as if due to the number of zeros on their paycheck they clearly have to be right/smart. There are sayings like "that decision was made…
>I would not be comfortable talking about my salary with most friends/family. In my family, it was always taboo to talk about money --my father hardly ever discussed money with friends (that I recall). So it was instilled in me that "money-talk" was somewhat "vulgar". To this day, I can only guess my siblings' fiscal positions. On the other hand, when I lived in the East (Asia), people there openly talked about money…
That's interesting. I've never felt any reservation in talking about my income, except to coworkers. I just feel like it invites resentment if mine happened to be higher, even if on a sub-conscious level.
Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid
#19there are 2 types of people in the office, happy people and those who know the salaries of others.
Re: Transparency at the Office: Psst...This Is What Your Co-Worker Is Paid
#20When I was working in New York City, I always found employee secrecy over the salaries pretty interesting. It seemed like a taboo to tell someone your salary or ask them what they're paid. I understand why employers would want to disincentive salary disclosures but employees? Your peers salary is clear indication of your valuation to the company and there should be every incentive to share. Back home in India, pretty…
asking what you make is like asking how often you get laid. and whom.