Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've not bothered reading the SMH (and by extension, The Age) online for a long time. The online version is weak, lazy journalism, incredibly (to my mind) even worse than The Daily Telegraph . Check out www.smh.com.au now... More than a third of the articles are about celebrities, or are vapid commentary on meaningless issues. There's a bit of content, but nothing really groundbreaking. And today is a day when there…
> Old media is indeed dying. I can't speak for Autralian media, but "old" media like the New York Times and the Washington Post in the US seem to still do well for themselves. Many big investigative pieces still come from newspapers, as most online-only outlets don't yet have the resources for that work. Newspapers are certainly less responsive (and the smaller papers are declining in quality, unfortunately), but for…
Julian Assange to run for Australian Senate
91–100 of 119 posts
Re: Julian Assange to run for Australian Senate
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
> can't seriously argue that someone who is accused of rape should just be set free like that If there's no substance to the allegations, yes, the person accused should absolutely just be set free like that. This is obvious.
The allegations have been repeatedly upheld as substantial by multiple jurists and court officers in multiple countries.
Swedish courts have found the allegations as stated by the prosecutor gives reason enough to issue an arrest warrant on suspicion to allow him to be questioned again (and possibly charged), not that evidence have been presented sufficient to charge or convict him.
The barrier for arresting someone on suspicion in Scandinavian countries is extremely low, as this is a routine way of taking someone in for questioning when the person in question refuses to return willingly.
The presence of a police interview with an alleged victim that contains statements that can reasonably be interpreted to implicate Assange in a crime would most likely in itself be sufficient.
The UK courts have only agreed that the allegations as stated by the prosecutors, and as supported by the prosecutors unverified accounts of what the women have said in police interviews would also amount to crimes in the UK, and that thus the content of the allegations is not an hindrance to extradition.
Assanges lawyers have not had opportunity to challenge the content of these, as that is outside of the scope of the extradition hearings, only to challenge the interpretation.
So these courts and jurists have not said much more than that if there is evidence to support these statements, that have not faced any legal challenge, then what is contained in them as written amounts to a crime.
Re: Julian Assange to run for Australian Senate
#93Re: Julian Assange to run for Australian Senate
#94Nice idea. Become a Senator and try for diplomatic immunity. Walk out of the Ecuadorian Embassy and wave goodbye to the police who have been waiting for him for the last umpteen months. The legal wrangling could become quite complicated if he succeeded. If the voters in Oz realise how annoyed the UK government would be if he did this then that would help his odds even more. For US residents I'll point out that Senate…
Why do you think the UK wouldn't be able to arrest him if he was an Australian senator? Some IRA terrorists were elected to the UK parliament while in prison. They still had to stay in prison. (the UK changed their laws to prevent anyone running for election if they are currently in prison)
Re: Julian Assange to run for Australian Senate
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
The allegations have been repeatedly upheld as substantial by multiple jurists and court officers in multiple countries.
You make it sound as if these courts have seriously considered the evidence and determined there's substance to it, but the findings by the courts are far more narrow than that. Swedish courts have found the allegations as stated by the prosecutor gives reason enough to issue an arrest warrant on suspicion to allow him to be questioned again (and possibly charged), not that evidence have been presented sufficient to…
The English courts have twice ruled that were the complaints brought in England by English citizens, Assange would be liable to arrest and charges being laid. That is the basis of extradition to face trial.
Most countries have a multi-stage system of deciding which complaints to take to trial. In general:
1. Police must first receive and investigate a complaint.
2. Police report to prosecutors, who must decide to issue warrants or to lay charges.
3. A magistrate, prosecuting judge or grand jury must decide that there is sufficient evidence that a trial might be be successful -- ie, that's not a frivolous waste of a court's time.
4. Then and only then is there is a criminal trial.
So far the matter has gotten as far as stage 2.
So of course Assange hasn't been given opportunity to present his case. Because there's no case yet. He's not up to the case-presenting part of the procedure.
It doesn't matter who you are, everybody gets the same process. That's a fundamental pillar of equality before the law. Assange is no exception.
Re: Julian Assange to run for Australian Senate
#96Re: Julian Assange to run for Australian Senate
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who is talking about the Australian government? Nobody cares about the Australian government. It's the UK government that would be the target. We can argue whether or not they would care any more, but given the amount of time senior UK politicians have already spent talking about what is ostensibly "just" a normal extradition case, and spent trying to undo the diplomatic uproar caused by ever-so-slightly hinting they…
Sorry, I misread you. I don't think the UK government would be fussed either. If nothing else, they are legally required to arrest Assange if he leaves the Ecuadorean embassy, regardless of what title he has.
UK police make judgement calls about how best to deploy police resources to enforce arrest warrants or chase down suspects or throw people out of the country every day.
It is naive at best to assume that the 24/7 guard kept on him has anything to do with legal obligations.
It could be "just" because it'd be embarrassing if he managed to leave due to the public profile of his case, but there's not really much room to doubt that the amount of police resources spent on him is political.
Re: Julian Assange to run for Australian Senate
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've said in other places that there are two Sydney Morning Heralds . One is an old fashioned high-church leftie yawnfest staffed mostly by people who dine out on stories about being stoned in the 60s. The other is a tabloid bilge pump. The bilge pays for the yawnfest and everybody tries to pretend that the pulpit isn't being subsidised by the people it rails against.
Worst of both worlds. To my mind, it seems to me that they have rudderless leadership, and lazy journalism. I severely doubt they know anything about the South West of Sydney, for instance. That would require leaving the North Shore occasionally :-)
As for the West I'll have you know I have been through Strathfield several times, and I once even flew over Parramatta.
Hope I've busted a few stereotypes here tonight!
Re: Julian Assange to run for Australian Senate
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, I misread you. I don't think the UK government would be fussed either. If nothing else, they are legally required to arrest Assange if he leaves the Ecuadorean embassy, regardless of what title he has.
They may be legally required to arrest Assange if he falls in their laps or he happens to walk up to a police officer (though I'm not sure if there'd be any legal consequences if they failed to arrest him even then - I doubt it), but they most certainly are not legally bound to invest massive amounts of resources to make it happen. UK police make judgement calls about how best to deploy police resources to enforce ar…
They know where Assange is. They know that the UK is obliged to arrest him. And they know that he has snubbed the English justice system which I imagine they feel a bit dark about.
Basically the amount of conspiracy theorising around the Assange case is getting flatly silly.
It's the HN/Reddit equivalent of truthers and birthers. An embarrassment.
Re: Julian Assange to run for Australian Senate
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
You make it sound as if these courts have seriously considered the evidence and determined there's substance to it, but the findings by the courts are far more narrow than that. Swedish courts have found the allegations as stated by the prosecutor gives reason enough to issue an arrest warrant on suspicion to allow him to be questioned again (and possibly charged), not that evidence have been presented sufficient to…
My point is that the allegations have been found to have substance. Enough to support arrest and in due course for charges to be laid in either Sweden or England. The English courts have twice ruled that were the complaints brought in England by English citizens, Assange would be liable to arrest and charges being laid. That is the basis of extradition to face trial. Most countries have a multi-stage system of decidi…
This is only half true. The allegations have been found to constitute a crime if they are true.
Therefore they are sufficient to justify an arrest warrant in Sweden, and I have described why that means nothing.
You can swear at a police officer in Scandinavia, and if you're lucky you'll find yourself arrested (and released before they'd need to formally charge you with anything). My dad had the misfortune of experiencing that first hand once when I was growing up.
In neither country did the court consider whether there was sufficient evidence to lay charges. That was in both cases outside of the remit of the court.
The rest of your comment conveniently contract the process to make it seem like the step from an arrest warrant to a charge is short in this case. It could be. It could also be much longer. It is not unusual for Scandinavian cases to go like this:
1. Police receives a complaint, and starts investigation.
2. Police wants to talk to X, and issues an arrest warrant. Interviews X. Releases X. Continues investigation
3. Police wants to talk to Y, and issues an arrest warrant. Interviews Y. Releases Y. Continues investigation
... continue until they finally find someone they have sufficient evidence to charge...
4. Police charges someone or decides there is no case to answer.
(followed, possibly, your step 3 and 4)
So getting to stage 2 in Scandinavia does not imply that they have any evidence, nor even that they are sure that a crime has occurred, nor that the person being arrested is someone the police have any degree of certainty have done anything even objectionable.
There's been plenty of cases recently with patterns like these.
Now, in this case we know that it's either Assange or nobody. But there is no implication inherent in the arrest warrant that says that there is evidence sufficient for charges, or that any will be made.
> It doesn't matter who you are, everybody gets the same process. That's a fundamental pillar of equality before the law. Assange is no exception.
If that had been true, this wouldn't even have been a discussion. If normal procedure had been followed, there'd been little reason to suspect foul play, and no reason not to urge Assange to go back - in fact, if that was the case and he went back, he'd worst case risk a prison sentence that would rob him of less freedom than what this process would (~6 months in a minimum security prison most non-Scandinavians would consider holiday-camp would be a likely sentence given the allegations, if found guilty).
There's numerous ways in which Assange's case have provably been handled outside the norm:
- He was wanted for arrest. The arrest warrant was cancelled and the case closed. A new prosecutor, a friend of the lawyer who represents the alleged victims, reopened the case. This in itself is at least highly unusual.
- The prosecutor has violated procedure by interviewing witnesses over the phone, possibly invalidating their statements.
- The prosecutor refuses to interview him abroad, alleging it can't be done, despite the fact that Swedish police did this with murder suspects after the extradition request against Assange was issued, and before the decision was handed down. Somehow different rules apply to Assange than people wanted for murder.
- UK police seems fit to "honour" him with a 24/7 watch, while lots of other people that are wanted are not even actively looked for.
You can claim "everybody gets the same process" all you want, but it is provably false.
(In this category it is also worth again mentioning that Sweden has admitted to colluding in illegal CIA rendition flights, handing political asylum seekers over to the CIA for transport to the regime they were fleeing, in direct violation of Swedish law and international treaties - so much for "everbody gets the same process"; forgive me for being sceptical of a regime that not only did that once, but that were caught red-handed by a different branch of government still assisting years after insisting it had stopped)