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For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

blogs.smithsonianmag.com

131–140 of 256 posts

Re: For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

#131
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not to start drama, but that's a bit sexist, isn't it? There's absolutely nothing sexist at all about the post. It was a compliment, geez. > Can't she just be 'stronger than any person you know'? No, men are generally stronger than women; it's why we have different classifications in sports. Would you rather we lumped them together?

Complimenting a woman by saying she's like a man is pretty much the definition of sexism.

Sheesh... Let me translate the post for you:

"This woman is so good that a certain physical difference between genders that has historically been regarded a prestigious male trait can be made even more of a compliment by giving it to a woman".

I don't understand the obsession I find online of people searching for insults and controversies that don't exist.

Re: For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

#132

There were 4 children, and one died. I have often wondered why the world's homo sapien population did not grow faster during the period 200,000 BC to 10,000 BC. In his book Extinct Humans, Ian Tattersall has argued that fully modern homo sapiens took shape around 200,000 BC and left Africa around 150,000 BC. http://www.amazon.com/Extinct-Humans-Ian-Tattersall/dp/08133... The growth of the population was very slow. So…

Also, don't forget that agriculture only arose recently, in the grand scale of things - somewhere around 20,000 years ago, and these folks had agriculture - in fact, their suffering is largely based around the fact that they're attempting agriculture in isolation, which doesn't really work with a "tribe" of their scale. You have to have trade, as, as we saw with them, if you lose your seed stock (carrots, almost rye), you're up the proverbial creek. It took second generation wilderness upbringing for what sounds like a instinctive hunting technique - i.e. chase the animal for days until it falls over exhausted, and kill it - this is how some Sub-Saharan cultures have hunted (and may in fact still) for millenia - Khoi, for instance, and is likely actually how humans have hunted since we descended onto the plains. We have no claws or fangs, just a physiology perfectly adapted for running long, long distances. I digress.

Another factor is that crops have changed vastly since the start of agriculture, which is also a major factor in the relative growth rate of human population (along with disease, which arose hand in hand with agriculture, of course) - see Teosinte vs. Corn, and Emmer Wheat vs. Durum. Same plants, shaped by man's hand since time immemorial by selective breeding.

So, yeah. These guys actually had it really well off compared to historic humans, as they had agriculture, but it doesn't function well in isolation, particularly in such a harsh environment as the taiga - don't forget the place used to be inundated with hunter-gatherers before everyone migrated for the cushy disease and war-ridden life agriculture offers.

Survival was a bitch until we figured out farming and trade - and it's improved over the last 150 years or so due to modern medicine (lower infant and adult mortality), improved crops (green revolution), improved productivity (industrial revolution), and all the rest.

Re: For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

#133
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: -40C == -40F, so grecy doesn't need to specify the units[1]! [1] Unless he's using Kelvins.

If he's using Kelvins, I sense a Nobel.

I sense a broken thermometer

Re: For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

#134
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complimenting a woman by saying she's like a man is pretty much the definition of sexism.

Sheesh... Let me translate the post for you: "This woman is so good that a certain physical difference between genders that has historically been regarded a prestigious male trait can be made even more of a compliment by giving it to a woman". I don't understand the obsession I find online of people searching for insults and controversies that don't exist.

I know that's what you meant. Regarding male-only traits as prestigious implies that they are superior to female-only traits. That implication is sexism. Whether or not you think sexism is insulting -- and it appears you do not -- it was definitely sexism. And other people find sexism insulting.

Re: For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's using Kelvins, I sense a Nobel.

I sense a broken thermometer

Funny you should say that - the reason I said "way past -40" is because all the thermometers I can find don't go past -40.

Even the digital ones just say "-40.0C" at about 6pm, and won't show anything else until 17 hours later when the sun comes back, and they creep up a few degrees.

Re: For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

#136
This book, mentioned in the Sources of the article, is (obviously) a book length account of the contacts between the Russian geologists and the Lykov family. Probably translated to several other languages as well.

Vasily Peskov. Lost in the Taiga: One Russian Family's Fifty-Year Struggle for Survival and Religious Freedom in the Siberian Wilderness. New York: Doubleday, 1992

Re: For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

#137
post #125
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: -40C == -40F, so grecy doesn't need to specify the units[1]! [1] Unless he's using Kelvins.

With a reading of -40, I'm fairly certain* he's not using Kelvins. [*] Sometimes negative temperatures are used to represent temperatures ABOVE infinity. That's when high-energy quantum states are MORE populated than low-energy quantum states... it's useful for things like making a laser. But I still think it's unreasonable to believe that the temperature outside is -40 kelvin.

What do you mean by 'above infinity'?

Re: For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

#138
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sense a broken thermometer

Funny you should say that - the reason I said "way past -40" is because all the thermometers I can find don't go past -40. Even the digital ones just say "-40.0C" at about 6pm, and won't show anything else until 17 hours later when the sun comes back, and they creep up a few degrees.

For mercury thermometers, it's because mercury freezes at -38C (-37F). Alcohol (red liquid) thermometers should work to -70C (-94F).

It's not clear why your thermometers don't register below -40, unless it's a legacy of the mercury thermometer limitation baked into the product (or frozen in, so to speak).

Re: For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

#139

> Old Karp was usually delighted by the latest innovations that the scientists brought up from their camp, and though he steadfastly refused to believe that man had set foot on the moon, he adapted swiftly to the idea of satellites. The Lykovs had noticed them as early as the 1950s, when "the stars began to go quickly across the sky," and Karp himself conceived a theory to explain this: "People have thought something…

It makes me a little jealous of the quality of sky they must have had.

It isn't that hard to see satellites in the sky. The ISS, in particular, can be very bright, to the point where you can see it in daylight (http://www.hobbyspace.com/SatWatching/, http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2009/06/18/how-to-se...)

The 1950 ones would have been a lot harder to spot, of course, but might at times have reflected the light of the below-the-horizon sun.

Re: For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact

#140

As a boy there was a common game that friends would play, which was -- if Newton were to come back today, what technology would he be most shocked about. I found this quote interesting, and I think shows how hard it may be to predict such things: "What amazed him most of all," Peskov recorded, "was a transparent cellophane package. 'Lord, what have they thought up—it is glass, but it crumples!'"

My grandfather was born in Abakan, and published several books on the history of the region. He visited Agafia several times by helicopter with my uncle, after the other members of her family had passed. When I was around 15, he showed me a video of their first encounter with her, and to this day I cannot get the image of the pure terror on her face out of my mind. She had multiple visitors before, but something abou…

It turned out that this was the first visit where someone in the crew had brought video equipment, and Agafia would later tell my grandfather that she thought this thing would 'steal her soul.'

Sorry? It might as well have been a log on his shoulder.

Now, if it was viewing video of herself on this camera that brought a look of "pure terror" to her face (that you can't get out of your mind to this day, no less) I could begin to understand, but if she was watching a video replay on the camera, then how was it being recorded?

With no prior knowledge of video or photography what basis would she have for belief that the random equipment on a videographers shoulder would "steal her soul"?

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