Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Overeducated and underemployed

economy.money.cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 70 posts

Re: Overeducated and underemployed

#51

Post by danilocampos »

jeffdavis wrote: post #14
betterunix wrote: post #11

"Overeducated" implies that there is some upper-bound on the appropriate education a person should receive if they have a particular career. It is the sort of elitist, aristocracy-favoring view of the world that we should be trying to discourage. Of course, when going to college means taking on mountains of inescapable debt, not getting a high-paying job afterwards is problematic. That's why we need to change the way…

I would add to that: being a cab driver out of college doesn't mean you are making a career out of it. It's called an "entry-level" job for a reason.

Taking a data entry gig at a large firm is entry-level. You can grow into bigger things there. Driving taxis is a dead-end job. There's nowhere to go once you achieve mastery.

Re: Overeducated and underemployed

#52

Post by jetti »

groby_b wrote: post #36
jetti wrote: post #10

Being a taxi driver has some advantages (especially if you are an O/O), with the big one being you get to set your own schedule. On top of that, it can generate quite a decent amount of money. I had a friend in college who drove a cab in Chicago on the weekends and he would make at least a grand during his 12 hour shift. I didn't pry too much, so I don't know if that was usual or that semester was out of the ordinary…

At least a grand? In 12 hours? Quick reality check: LAX has more expensive cabs than Chicago, but let's assume they're equal. A ~30 minute ride to the airport costs me, including tip, ~$40. A quick verify shows that Chicago is actually $41 for a 31 minute ride, no tip. ( http://www.taxifarefinder.com/main.php?city=Chicago&from... ) Given that people need to get in/out of the cab, etc, I think we can stay with $40/30…

"I'd think your buddy was maybe telling a slightly tall tale based on that one night where he ended up with almost a grand in cash at the end of the shift. :)"

Could be. I could be remembering it wrong too, it was 6 or so years ago :)

Re: Overeducated and underemployed

#53

Post by krakensden »

xijuan wrote: post #32
justin_vanw wrote: post #21

This has the usual journalist bias of putting all graduates in the same bucket. I would like to see the same statistic, but with Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, EE, Mechanical Eng., etc all in their own buckets. There seems to be some kind of outrage that you can go to a good school and get a 4 year degree and end up working with people who just graduated high-school. New grads were probably led up the garden path a…

I don't like what you said. You made it sound like that English and Journalism are easy majors. Even though it is harder to find jobs with those majors right now, they are not necessarily easy majors. In fact, depending on your talents,these majors can be very hard. Taking me as an example, I can never imagine myself majoring in English or Journalism because I dislike writing and I have never done too well in my Engl…

English and Journalism are considered easy majors for Americans at American universities. They typically require less time to prep for class, and have assignments that don't require as much time to complete.

Entry level jobs typically don't pay very well, and you're competing with everyone in the world who can write English, unlike, say, lawyers, who are competing with people who live and are licensed in their particular subsection of America.

Re: Overeducated and underemployed

#54

Post by numeromancer »

greghinch wrote: post #26

"Overeducated" is probably not the correct term here. Maybe something like "mis-educated" would be more suitable. There's nothing wrong with wanting to learn and study interesting subjects. Gone are the times when a college degree alone will land you a job. You need employable skills if you want to be paid these days, and things like History, English, and most of the Liberal Arts degrees don't equate to that.

How about “overschooled”.

Re: Overeducated and underemployed

#55

Post by ChuckMcM »

justin_vanw wrote: post #21

This has the usual journalist bias of putting all graduates in the same bucket. I would like to see the same statistic, but with Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, EE, Mechanical Eng., etc all in their own buckets. There seems to be some kind of outrage that you can go to a good school and get a 4 year degree and end up working with people who just graduated high-school. New grads were probably led up the garden path a…

You did sort of step into it there with the wide brush. But there is an interesting point that you allude too but don't state. STEM [1] degrees require a facility with executing procedural tasks, creating and testing against a hypothesis, and evaluating the result. Those skills are widely applicable. Not having those skills will limit your options (independently of going to College or not).

I made a suggestion to my Alma Mater that they consider making these "general ed" classes for all majors, basically making every major require 1 semester of calculus, 2 semesters of science, one semester of engineering, and one semester of computer science/technology. The theory being that these have become basic skills in our society as much as English composition, history, and the arts are.

[1] STEM - Science, Technology, Engineering, Math

Re: Overeducated and underemployed

#56

Post by randomdata »

cadlin wrote: post #49
justin_vanw wrote: post #21

This has the usual journalist bias of putting all graduates in the same bucket. I would like to see the same statistic, but with Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, EE, Mechanical Eng., etc all in their own buckets. There seems to be some kind of outrage that you can go to a good school and get a 4 year degree and end up working with people who just graduated high-school. New grads were probably led up the garden path a…

This comment (and article) are silly without comparing college graduates with "unemployable" degrees to people who only have a high school diploma. If you look at minimum wage data (which would presumably filter out "high earning degrees"), you find that 7.3% of minimum wage employees have bachelor degrees or higher. This is certainly not zero, but it's evidence that unemployable degrees have some value. Unfortunatel…

"it's evidence that unemployable degrees have some value."

I see a different picture. Of those old enough to have obtained a degree, approximately 14% earn a minimum wage income, which is only a few points off the adult population at large. That indicates to me that minimum wage earners are fairly evenly distributed through the population, regardless of educational attainment.

Re: Overeducated and underemployed

#57

Post by drcube »

randomdata wrote: post #30
drcube wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if the reason people get those degrees is to get better jobs. If the proportion of degree holders is the same across all jobs, why should someone pay tens of thousands in tuition, plus the opportunity cost in lost wages, for that degree?

I don't really think that is a realistic reason to pursue higher education. Without even getting into some of the deeper conversations, there are only so many "better" jobs to go around. 80% of the jobs out there pay less than $50K per year, and just $45K per year for 75% of the jobs. Meanwhile, if you are aged 25-29, 30% of your peers have a degree. Therefore, 33% of college graduates in that age group are basically…

> Finding a job at the end should be one of the last reasons you consider attending.

I agree with this if you're rich, or else qualify for a free education like a scholarship or the GI Bill. But for most people, college is a significant investment and should be treated like one. Why should someone take out mortgage sized amounts of debt for no other reason than to learn something interesting? Is that a responsible use of borrowed money?

Re: Overeducated and underemployed

#58

Post by greghinch »

xijuan wrote: post #32
justin_vanw wrote: post #21

This has the usual journalist bias of putting all graduates in the same bucket. I would like to see the same statistic, but with Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, EE, Mechanical Eng., etc all in their own buckets. There seems to be some kind of outrage that you can go to a good school and get a 4 year degree and end up working with people who just graduated high-school. New grads were probably led up the garden path a…

I don't like what you said. You made it sound like that English and Journalism are easy majors. Even though it is harder to find jobs with those majors right now, they are not necessarily easy majors. In fact, depending on your talents,these majors can be very hard. Taking me as an example, I can never imagine myself majoring in English or Journalism because I dislike writing and I have never done too well in my Engl…

I don't think OP said they are easy majors. Rather that graduating with a degree in those fields doesn't leave you very employable.

Re: Overeducated and underemployed

#59

Post by Turing_Machine »

danilocampos wrote: post #51
jeffdavis wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add to that: being a cab driver out of college doesn't mean you are making a career out of it. It's called an "entry-level" job for a reason.

Taking a data entry gig at a large firm is entry-level. You can grow into bigger things there. Driving taxis is a dead-end job. There's nowhere to go once you achieve mastery.

If you really paid attention and grokked the problems with the taxi business on a fundamental level, you might be in a position to launch a competitor for Uber.

But yeah, unlikely.

Re: Overeducated and underemployed

#60

Post by randomdata »

drcube wrote: post #57
randomdata wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really think that is a realistic reason to pursue higher education. Without even getting into some of the deeper conversations, there are only so many "better" jobs to go around. 80% of the jobs out there pay less than $50K per year, and just $45K per year for 75% of the jobs. Meanwhile, if you are aged 25-29, 30% of your peers have a degree. Therefore, 33% of college graduates in that age group are basically…

> Finding a job at the end should be one of the last reasons you consider attending. I agree with this if you're rich, or else qualify for a free education like a scholarship or the GI Bill. But for most people, college is a significant investment and should be treated like one. Why should someone take out mortgage sized amounts of debt for no other reason than to learn something interesting? Is that a responsible us…

With such overwhelming evidence that a degree does not make for a good investment in most cases, and enrolment rates only increasing, there must be something else attracting people. My hunch is that people want to look important. Similarly, taking out a massive loan to drive a brand new BMW doesn't make financial sense either, but lots of people still do it because it shapes their image.
Post reply on HN