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Mac is Linux done right

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Re: Mac is Linux done right

#31

Post by klrr »

pretoriusB wrote: post #21
yuvadam wrote: post #12

TFA is nothing more than an uninformative list of Mac apps. Also, someone should tell the author Mac is not Linux.

Yes, it's "Linux done right". "Y is X done right" is a common idiom. It doesn't imply that Y is a variant of X. E.g in the case he means OS X is a unix-clone (actually a fully certified UNIX) that has made the right choices, Desktop wise, unlike Linux.

Well, it's really hard for Linux to make the right decision. The community is so diverse, FSF developing the userland, OSI the kernel and a third party shipping the distribution of them. The GNU/Linux desktop can't be done right, unless you customize it to your needs.

Re: Mac is Linux done right

#32

Post by pretoriusB »

Gigablah wrote: post #23
pretoriusB wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a Desktop that works 99% of the time, and isn't made by amateur hour volunteers that either let things stagnate for ages (GTK+), or change their ideas every second month (from UI direction to media framework), is not "GUI frippery". Except if you spend all your time buried in the command line to begin with. The only bad things about OS X are due to the proprietary and closed nature of some of the components (a…

As a MBP owner, I'm hard pressed to find anything more frustrating to use than the OSX Finder.

Any specific problem with it?

A lot of people complain about the Finder because other people do so.

I've used Unices since Sun OS days. I've used Linux for 15 years (from RedHat 5 and Mandrake to Ubuntu 12.04). I've used Windows for 6 years. I've used Macs for 8 years.

What exactly is the problem with the Finder compared to what's offered on the other platforms?

Specific, measurable, gripes. Not "it feels slow" junk.

Re: Mac is Linux done right

#33

Post by dazzawazza »

DanBC wrote: post #22

The article talks about a bunch of software the user installed, but doesn't say much about why "mac" is "linux" done right. Perhaps many of the author's problems would be fixed just by changing to a different Linux distribution. Or even tweaking the previous Linux. I don't know, because none of the broken things are described. I feel sorry for the BSD folks, being seen as some variant of Linux. There are lots of thin…

I have a FreeBSD desktop. I use it to test code I will deploy to my FreeBSD servers and to build packages to deploy to my servers.

FreeBSD desktop is as broken as Linux desktop. It's the same shambles as Linux. You can get it working, sure. You can even get it working pretty well. The thing is my time is worth more than that. I use OSX on a day to day basis because I get what I want out of the box. It's just rock solid.

Re: Mac is Linux done right

#34

Post by diminish »

StavrosK wrote: post #18
snotrockets wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+bazillion. When I used Mac OS X, everything was very shiny, but also not fully there, functionally. You almost had everything you need, but those few packages that needed to be manually built. And that setting was almost reasonable, but not quite. And there was always something that could be worked around, but never get solved. So yes, I could run MS Word without resorting to Wine, but I couldn't get any work done w…

I will second this. I used OS X for a year and hated how I had to fight it at every turn. It was a while ago, but when I had to install any package/library, it was a complete headache. Ports were worse, I once hosed my packages trying to upgrade one because it needed uninstalling everything and reinstalling them again one by one, but it didn't seem to like that. Apart from development being a complete pain, the UI wa…

for a developer, os/x is a joke as a unix. and it is a loss of time for a developer since it is not present on servers and will never be. i recommend every developer to avoid os/x totally, since it doesn't add any useful business skill to your arsenal. just get the right compatible linux hw and make sure your client and server are inline.

i myself have lost 5 years in the mac world. there is no skill set i gained there, which made any sense in my dev work. i just remember annoyingly slow visual effects which make you lose a zillion seconds a year watching.

Re: Mac is Linux done right

#35

Post by thaumaturgy »

Hmph. An anonymous blog from someone that's only been using MacOS for three months. Why is this here?

There are some Linux-y things that MacOS gets really, really wrong:

- package management. There is a lot of very good open source software that can potentially run on MacOS. If you want to use any of it with a reasonable package manager, you're pretty much forced to choose between either Homebrew or MacPorts, both of which are incompatible with each-other, and neither of which is complete.

- the init system, launchd. I'm not super stoked to see systemd gaining ground in Linux, given the occasional troubles with launchd. When launchd works -- and it usually does, to be fair -- it works well and you never think about it. When it doesn't work however, when there's some kind of system problem traced back to something in launchd, good f_cking luck. I hope you really love XML.

- user management. It's really easy to create a hidden user in MacOS which will have full access to the session of a logged-in user. (I took advantage of this to play a fun prank on a former employer once.) Desktop Linux kinda-sorta potentially has this problem too, but MacOS exacerbates it with the way it handles user management in system preferences.

Re: Mac is Linux done right

#36

Post by dansul »

I don't understand this article and at the end I'm still wondering why is Mac OS Linux done right.

What are the 'broken' things about Ubuntu and how is Mac OS fixing them? How is Mac OS helping you be more productive? The author lists programs for every task like somehow they (or something similar) are not available for Linux. (Almost) everything you listed there has a Linux flavor.

>Stuff like mysql and mongo [...] should go into a VM of ubuntu or what not.

Oh.

Re: Mac is Linux done right

#37

Post by pretoriusB »

snotrockets wrote: post #8
chewxy wrote: post #2

Well, I've tried developing on a mac and deploying to linux. Never again.

+bazillion. When I used Mac OS X, everything was very shiny, but also not fully there, functionally. You almost had everything you need, but those few packages that needed to be manually built. And that setting was almost reasonable, but not quite. And there was always something that could be worked around, but never get solved. So yes, I could run MS Word without resorting to Wine, but I couldn't get any work done w…

>When I used Mac OS X, everything was very shiny, but also not fully there, functionally. You almost had everything you need, but those few packages that needed to be manually built.

It seems like you wanted to use OS X for something it wasn't intended: a programming workstation to target Linux deployment.

Use a Virtual Machine for that. You'll get an environment like the one you deploy to, snapshots, easy backup, multiple versions of deployment environments with provisioning AND your desktop remains clean.

The reverse situation (trying to use a Linux system as a Desktop machine) is terribly IMHO. As soon as you step in common 2013 Desktop use (e.g edit the video files from your camera or use some proprietary software, hardware etc) you are in a world of pain.

I except from any desktop OS I use in 2013 FULL multimedia capabilities, consuming AND editing, and with a large variety of software offerings to chose from for each.

Now, if you're satisfied with just a terminal a browser window and a way to play mp3 and avis, sure, use Linux.

Re: Mac is Linux done right

#38

Post by pretoriusB »

mkilling wrote: post #26
chewxy wrote: post #2

Well, I've tried developing on a mac and deploying to linux. Never again.

What was your tech stack? What problems did you run into? I'm surprised, because I imagine that's how a big fraction of developers here on HN work, and I've very rarely heard that complaint before.

People try to use a Desktop OS like OS X like a development workstation targeting Linux and the full Linux userland and then complain.

Go to any developer's conference and it's 80+ MBP and Air's with OS X. Do you hear them bitch?

Use a Virtual Machine or a remote/cloud etc server like the pros do. It's 2013. It's not rocket science.

"Oh, I tried installing something and I broke my MacPorts" -- well, cry me a river.

Do you know how many times I (and millions of people) have struggled with borked RPMs and DEBS, external repos not being totally compatible, latest stuff only being available on experimental repos, having to revert to manual compilation, messing with hardware drivers et all in Linux?

Re: Mac is Linux done right

#39

Post by hollerith »

klrr wrote: post #31
pretoriusB wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's "Linux done right". "Y is X done right" is a common idiom. It doesn't imply that Y is a variant of X. E.g in the case he means OS X is a unix-clone (actually a fully certified UNIX) that has made the right choices, Desktop wise, unlike Linux.

Well, it's really hard for Linux to make the right decision. The community is so diverse, FSF developing the userland, OSI the kernel and a third party shipping the distribution of them. The GNU/Linux desktop can't be done right, unless you customize it to your needs.

>OSI [developing] the kernel

That's not true: the Open Source Initiative has no hand in the development of the kernel.

The strongest link between the OSI and the kernel is the fact that Linus is more approving of the OSI's position on ethics and co-existence with commercial software than he is of the FSF's position.

Re: Mac is Linux done right

#40

Post by level09 »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #35

Hmph. An anonymous blog from someone that's only been using MacOS for three months. Why is this here? There are some Linux-y things that MacOS gets really, really wrong: - package management. There is a lot of very good open source software that can potentially run on MacOS. If you want to use any of it with a reasonable package manager, you're pretty much forced to choose between either Homebrew or MacPorts, both of…

totally agree, Ubuntu's upstart for example is way better than launchd, the files structure on ubuntu also seems to make more sense, additionally, Mac finder really sucks compared to other OS's file managers ..
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