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Bill Gates: My Plan to Fix The World's Biggest Problems

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Re: Bill Gates: My Plan to Fix The World's Biggest Problems

#121

Post by illuminate »

sliverstorm wrote: post #117
jneen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The negativity is because of the legacy of colonialism. "Rich White Guy Solves all the World's Problems" ends up being really condescending, especially when other rich white guys are causing or exacerbating many of the problems.

especially when other rich white guys are causing or exacerbating many of the problems. Sounds like "Rich White Guy" is the best person to solve the problems, then. Which is a fairer fight- bushmen vs. rich white guys, or rich white guy vs other rich white guys?

"Sounds like "Rich White Guy" is the best person to solve the problems, then"

This is not a binary "problems" or "no problems". The manner by which colonialists "improve" the rest of the world is at the expense of the rest of the world.

Not commenting on Gates' particular methods, but injecting money generally comes with a cost, and at various freedoms of the countries involved. At best of intention, throwing money at a problem is not usually solving the conditions behind a problem.

Re: Bill Gates: My Plan to Fix The World's Biggest Problems

#122

Post by SoftwareMaven »

specialist wrote: post #71
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily disagree with much you wrote, but this piece about corporate charter schools, Alas, free market means monopoly, not more parental choice. seems like it came out of nowhere. Since charter schools entered my area, my kids have gone from two choices, the local high school and a gifted program for engineering students at a local college, to many choices, includes a performing arts school, a science an…

Thanks. Yea, that was quite the leap. I see privatization equated with competitiveness all the time. (As those the bidding process isn't an insider rigged game, but that's whole 'nother issue.) I'm pleased that charter school led to greater diversity and choice in your district. Like they say, YMMV. In the reports I've read, charter schools have been selectively admitting students, cherry picking, excluding the low p…

The application process is one of those interesting ones. I completely agree that having a different ruleset but same grading process is completely wrong, but I think that says more about having involvement from too high of a governmental level.

Personally, I think our best option would be to do away with the notion of age-based grades. Make progression based on competency (at least for the core curricula), so if you are highly competent in math, you may be with students several years older than you but if your writing stinks, you may be with younger kids. Instead of trying to force kids into a mold that very few fit comfortably in, let them grow in their own ways.

I would love to have my kids attend a school like that. My daughter, who is a gifted writer and artist but struggles non-stop with math (and there are physiological reasons for that) would be able to be comfortable in school and, as a result, better able to focus on her strengths instead of trying to shore up weaknesses that only matter for testing programs.

If the charter system allows more experimentation, then that alone justifies its existence; but the transition of more than 100 years of "prepare them for the factory" type of education to "prepare them for knowledge work" will not painful, especially since we still need some of the "prepare them for the factory" and many more "prepare them for a trade".

Re: Bill Gates: My Plan to Fix The World's Biggest Problems

#123

Post by illuminate »

anewguy99 wrote: post #86
jneen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The negativity is because of the legacy of colonialism. "Rich White Guy Solves all the World's Problems" ends up being really condescending, especially when other rich white guys are causing or exacerbating many of the problems.

Am I the only one that gets uncomfortable when white people are treated as an undifferentiated, malevolent mass?

Complicity is only with those willfully ignorant, I imagine. Colonialism ~is~ a malevolent mass. "Rich white persons" tend to be the force behind colonialism, but theoretically it could be anyone.

Re: Bill Gates: My Plan to Fix The World's Biggest Problems

#124

Post by MichaelGG »

realcertify wrote: post #111
MichaelGG wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past, the foundation has explicitly stated that they are not looking to fund clinics and specific work. While that kind of charity provides immediate help to people, it does not provide any long-term solutions. Bill Gates does not have unlimited money. The $40BN or so they manage is not enough to really make an impact if they focus on immediate solutions like helping individual cases. They need to use the mone…

I see your point, but considering that there are almost no advances in cancer treatment over last decades (despite all that research), may be it would make some sense to spend some of that money to help sick people? Especially 2 year old kid with such rare type of cancer? In fact trying to help him could be a great research in itself, but looks like it's not something they are interested in.

Even if there were no advancements, which is certainly not the case, no, it would still probably not be a good use of the money. If all forms of cancer are simply unsolvable (not the case), then research would be better spent on researching other diseases, working to change healthcare so the costs are not extremely expensive, and so on.

And why spend $100K+ to save one child? Why not that money, to, say, feed many starving children? Or build housing?

If "trying to help him" would be a form of "great research", then chances are someone would be interested in it. You might need to realise that he is simply unlucky. But not necessarily any more unlucky than a child that gets polio, or has their skin burned off, or is left brain damaged from a car accident.

It's complicated and sad, but denouncing long-term investment because of immediate sad situations will only create more sad situations.

Re: Bill Gates: My Plan to Fix The World's Biggest Problems

#125

Post by specialist »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #122
specialist wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Yea, that was quite the leap. I see privatization equated with competitiveness all the time. (As those the bidding process isn't an insider rigged game, but that's whole 'nother issue.) I'm pleased that charter school led to greater diversity and choice in your district. Like they say, YMMV. In the reports I've read, charter schools have been selectively admitting students, cherry picking, excluding the low p…

The application process is one of those interesting ones. I completely agree that having a different ruleset but same grading process is completely wrong, but I think that says more about having involvement from too high of a governmental level. Personally, I think our best option would be to do away with the notion of age-based grades. Make progression based on competency (at least for the core curricula), so if you…

  Personally, I think our best option would be to do away with the notion of age-based grades.
Agreed.

I've been chewing on two ideas.

Assess student achievement with actual achievements. Just like achievement badges in the Boy Scouts. My son is an Eagle Scout. After meeting the minimum requirements, and completing his project, he was able to assemble whatever achievements tickled his fancy. Promotes self direction and working at one's own rate.

Have students teach each other, work more collaboratively, grade each other. Versus lectures, rote memorization, and testing. I've experienced this first hand (as the student). Peer pressure and expectations work wonders. Hardest, most rewarding 'A' grade I ever earned. (I was otherwise a terrible student.)

Alas, to date, there's very little research on these two reforms. Some places have tried the achievement system, results inconclusive. I haven't looked to see if the peer support system has been tried else where.

Re: Bill Gates: My Plan to Fix The World's Biggest Problems

#126

Post by hackinthebochs »

Alex3917 wrote: post #85
kenjackson wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I've heard complaints about KIPP, but never anything about any sort of metaphorical enslavement. Could you expand?

One of the main components of the program is extending both the school day and the school year, so that schooling is 10 hours a day and 11 months a year or whatever. Why? The logic is basically that low-income minorities can't be trusted to raise their own children, so the government needs to step in and separate them from their kids. Paul Tough (the NYT's main KIPP advocate) has an article here explaining it: http:/…

>The logic is basically that low-income minorities can't be trusted to raise their own children, so the government needs to step in and separate them from their kids

In general this is true. There is a serious culture change that needs to happen and the parents aren't doing it. This is coming from a black man that has seen first hand the toxic culture a lot of these kids grow up in.

>The program revolves entirely around extrinsic motivation, which will prevent most of these kids from actually maturing into adults and being able to handle anything beyond minimum wage jobs.

I see some version of this argument trotted out all the time, and frankly its nonsense. The majority of kids, rich poor black white, do not have the motivation to learn or try hard at school on their own. It is only through extrinsic motivations that these kids are able to succeed: parents, peers, culture. This is precisely exactly what poor inner-city kids lack. Any program that aims to change the trajectory of black achievement must address these issues head-on. There is absolutely no place for political correctness in these discussions; this is entire generations of kids being lost to low achievement and poor future prospects.

Re: Bill Gates: My Plan to Fix The World's Biggest Problems

#127

Post by Permit »

Alex3917 wrote: post #108
kenjackson wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is data to support this. There's a well known phenomena called summer learning loss. Some of the research suggests that the majority of the gap between rich and poor students can be explained by summer learning loss. And remember, parents have to enroll their children in KIPP. How is that any different than rich parents sending their children to afterschool and summer programs that are commonplace? In many ways…

I understand summer learning loss, but that doesn't mean that KIPP is actually the best model (or even beneficial) in practice, especially at scale. Also, summer learning loss only measures math and reading performance on standardized tests, not executive function, intrinsic motivation, etc. And even on those measures, the difference isn't especially huge in math, so we're really only talking about reading ability. (…

> Is year round schooling really the best way to close the literacy gap?

What's the alternative in your mind? Personally, it makes complete sense to me to have year-round schooling. Especially considering the effects its been shown to have on math and reading performance.

What's so bad about extra schooling?

Edit: Also, perhaps it was different for you as a child, but most children are not intrinsically motivated to participate in school as it stands. As a kid I was far more interested in playing Age of Empires or playing outside, so the argument that extrinsic motivation doesn't work seems weak to me.

Re: Bill Gates: My Plan to Fix The World's Biggest Problems

#128

Post by Permit »

Alex3917 wrote: post #75
dos1 wrote: post #31

I don't get the negativity in this thread. Bill Gates is trying to solve hard problems and people here are complaining. Sure, they may not be the problems that you think are most important, and I'm sure the foundation is making missteps along the way and wasting some money. But his message in this article is a good one I think: > The process I have described—setting clear goals, choosing an approach, measuring result…

"Bill Gates is trying to solve hard problems and people here are complaining." If you actually look at KIPP (the main education reform that Bill Gates advocates), it seems more like an effort to basically enslave low-income minorities rather than a real attempt to improve education. I think there is actually pretty good reason to complain about this.

>If you actually look at KIPP (the main education reform that Bill Gates advocates), it seems more like an effort to basically enslave low-income minorities rather than a real attempt to improve education. I think there is actually pretty good reason to complain about this.

Yes, enslavement of low-income minorities, that's exactly what he's going for. This is ridiculous hyperbole.

Re: Bill Gates: My Plan to Fix The World's Biggest Problems

#129

Post by DanBC »

Permit wrote: post #127
Alex3917 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand summer learning loss, but that doesn't mean that KIPP is actually the best model (or even beneficial) in practice, especially at scale. Also, summer learning loss only measures math and reading performance on standardized tests, not executive function, intrinsic motivation, etc. And even on those measures, the difference isn't especially huge in math, so we're really only talking about reading ability. (…

> Is year round schooling really the best way to close the literacy gap? What's the alternative in your mind? Personally, it makes complete sense to me to have year-round schooling. Especially considering the effects its been shown to have on math and reading performance. What's so bad about extra schooling? Edit: Also, perhaps it was different for you as a child, but most children are not intrinsically motivated to…

It's a great idea.

Other things that help are giving books to families and encouraging parents, especially male father-figures, to read to children.

That might need some adult eduction, because adult illiteracy is a bit of a problem.

In the UK we have a charity called BooksTrust. Unfortunately it seems to have wider reach among middle class families (who have enough money to buy books, and who read to their children) than among poor parents. They have quite modest funding (£13m per year)

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8218115/C...)

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