Live data from Hacker News

What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

harthur.wordpress.com

771–780 of 826 posts

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#771
post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Code is never personal. Whatever I say about your code has nothing to do with you. Maybe this is fine for psychopaths, economists, or machines that can eventually understand the criticism one day, but for normal people it doesn't apply. Someone's code is like someone's child. It's great and I'd say necessary to use constructive criticism, but I just don't see the need to bully and make fun of people.

I am working on a team that is smarter than me. And I noticed, they don't attach a huge amount of their identity on their code. Taking myself out of it improved my skills. Having said that though, when you ridicule someone, you've made it personal. When someone ridicules someone else, there's a high chance that they secretly feel ridiculed by others (Jungian shadows). I forgot who observed this: adult males will kill…

> I am working on a team that is smarter than me. And I noticed, they don't attach a huge amount of their identity on their code. Taking myself out of it improved my skills.

I guess it depends on context. For team work projects, maybe your coworkers don't feel like they have ownership over their work. I feel that this is very different compared to open sourcing your personal work.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#772
post #200

Heather, I agree that people are unnecessarily rude to you. Don't sob. Your code shows you are already a more capable programmer than most of the ones I interview. No one has given you a clear answer as to why your code is reinventing the wheel, so allow me to do it politely. I took every single example from your README, and show you below how everything can be reimplemented with sed -r (nice extended regex syntax, m…

Why are people even arguing about this? Is there some religion that forces people to only believe in and use GNU tools that they can't appreciate a competing tool?

A tool's a tool. If it's useful to you, use it. If you don't need it, then don't. Why does this have to turn into a debate about why someone shouldn't have invented another tool because one already exists?

Look around the world, there's competition and choice in literally everything. Why can't they be choice in what CLI tools to use?

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can write complex vector math in C from memory - doesn't mean everyone needs to be able to do it. That replace library does what it's supposed to do - it replaces shit easily. Don't like it - don't use it. If people want to do more - then they'll figure it out for themselves. For everyone who already knows more - eat some humble cake.

>Don't like it - don't use it. This is a false dilemma and completely misses the point. The replace library was written by a person who either never heard of or never learned how to use SED. Just because they created their own hack as a workaround doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

> Just because they created their own hack as a workaround doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

Are you honestly at HackerNews posting that someone hacking together some code to scratch their own itch is not "the right thing to do"?

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#774
This just verifies my experience that Corey Haines is a fake.

His cult of personality is defined by lots of high-fives, 'that's awesome', 'i am such a positive person' statements.

So, he like to pretend he is really positive, nice, friendly... but this event shows that is all fake.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be that as it may he was a complete dick. I wouldn't want to work with someone like that, no matter who he is.

You don't have to. Then again, that's not a criteria for anything.

My guess is most people prefer not to work with assholes. And its a pretty good guess.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#776

I kind of expect more from Corey Haines, he's supposed to have a reasonable reputation according to people I know and trust. I'm supposed to be going to one of his 'Code Retreats' in Melbourne this year. I hope I don't get made fun of! Good code seems to be whatever the majority of nodding heads agree upon, and rarely that is merit based. It seems to me that unfortunately most of the nodding heads are people who act…

Why would you go to his code retreat? Seriously? I am stumped.

As far as I can tell he is just some guy who has engineered a healthy social media profile / following, and goes around beating his drum. Basically an agile-coach charlatan.

I suspect it is very likely you already know just as much, if not more, about software development.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#777
post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dial down your indignation, friend: help us get rid of this reek. I agree with you and gave you an upvote. Maybe my comments do make me look like a "tosser" - but these people were behaving like bullies, plain and simple. And man, I can't stand that shit. I see it every day. People will go out of their way to make others feel miserable. Or they use their power/standing/influence to pick a fight with someone weaker…

Steven and Corey have both more or less begged off from even trying to say what they mean- they have simply apologized for introducing volatility, for hurting feelings. I find it outrageously presumptuous to take such short, pithy tweets, and to claim they were made with malice, intending to antagonize, or were in fact bullying. The fact is Nodeites are renowned for rehashing the entrenched. It also, gasp, has callba…

Okay, okay. This is enough. Both. Thanks for calling for a de-escalation, that sounds like a wonderful idea.

First things first, bullying is not always conscious. You seem to imply that and I happen to believe that is not true. Someone can act bullying-ish without being a bully. It happens. It sucks, always. It sucks especially when you're not in fact a bully and you didn't mean to act like one. (someone made a comment about "being a racist" and "saying something racist". It's similar.)

This point has been made over and over again: Someone with such a large audience and such a public channel has a certain responsibility. For better or worse, they represent a certain part of a community, they are looked up to. You can't deny that with a certain amount of, let's say "Power" comes a certain amount of, let's call it "Responsibility" ;)

And that responsibility is that they can't afford the same boorishness and low brow-ness on their e.g. public twitter channels. It's not just a developer expressing an opinion anymore. It becomes a community thing. I even read tweets in German, bashing this github repo. And when it goes that far, the vitriol in the air just grows exponentially. People don't think about it anymore, it's suddenly a hive mind thing. That's why it spreads so quickly. Monkey see, monkey do.

It may have been only one tweet per person by three people, but they happened to be high-profile enough to spread it far and wide. I also want to keep the communication channels open and tolerant, but it is important to conduct yourself in a courteous manner that you would also use face to face. Especially if you have follower counts in the thousands or ten-thousands. (it's a tight-knit community...)

I don't, however think that the public communication channels need to be tolerant or indeed designed for low-brow, ruffian, boorish behaviour. You can do that at home with your friends. Or indeed on Jabber/XMPP. Or on your own forums. Or mailing lists. Not that I would want to ban people from exhibiting these behaviours on public channels (To the tolerance-mobile!), but I would like to see the community frown upon them. In my opinion, they add very little value to the content and they benefit mostly the person exhibiting them and not the community at large. That to me means definitely that it should stay in private circles, especially if it can be detrimental to a single person.

You say that the community doesn't do itself a favour, reacting as harshly as that. But many of us (I think) love the idea of open source. Many of us would put out a small tool like that on github and we would probably be upset if someone (seemingly) just took a quick look at it and go to twitter and just essentially start a high profile pitchfork mob. That is why the reaction has been soo strong and passionate.

Also, the fact that Heather got caught between communities warring (apparently. that was not known to me...) is fairly irrelevant. This kind of conduct needs to stop. If someone wants to duke it out on twitter, take it up with someone who 1. agrees to it, i'm sure there are enough zealots in either community. or 2. is of a similar high-profile stature.

Some thoughts on what was said, what was meant, what was perceived. What was said: "I cannot even make this stuff up [link to gh:harthur/replace]" What was meant [speculation?]: "Hmm, I wonder why someone would remake sed with node.js? Weird." What was perceived [speculation?][citation needed]: "OMGWTF, LOOK AT THIS IDIOT MORON!!11 DOESN'T TEHY KNOW THAT THIS IS LIEK SED BUT SHIT? ALSO NODE.JS, LAWL!!!11"

This is only one of the examples. This is a problem, agreed? Most people seem to forget that perception is the most relevant of these three things when you conduct yourself in public.

Wow, this got more rambly than expected.

PS: To everyone that says "grow a thicker skin, the world is bad", please don't do this. It should be very reasonable to expect people to not be idiots. It's not a stupid thing. It's something we as a community should strive for. We should be moving towards a community that frowns upon these behaviours, protecting the new and the defenseless. (What you do in your startup world is none of my business, of course.) Why this hit so close to home for Heather [speculation?] and many of us [speculation?] is because we feel safe in this community and we didn't expect to [citation needed] be backstabbed out of our own ranks.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#778
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C'mon we are long past the days where tools had to written in $somelanguage. These are days where even things like compilers and databases are not being written in C. If its of any help I think its time for the Unix community as a whole to sit down and self reflect. If people are beginning to think something like 'sed' as too level to use, then better job needs to be done to make them more accessible and usable. Ther…

I respectfully disagree with you here. The beauty and the wonder of these small command line tools (for me, at least) is that they are a) small and b) fast and c) ubiquitious. I do a lot of data manipulation, and while I'll do anything complex in a real programming language (with a REPL) sed, awk, grep and find are really really handy for quick data finding and manipulation. Any new API on top of them would only be p…

Wow, you actually stated something that was wrong enough to force me to comment. The beauty of these tools are that they are small, fast, ubiquitous, AND easy to replace with other tools if they fit your problem better. Unix was built exactly for swapping in these small one-off programs and to deny that is to deny the beauty of it's design and to basically ignore the fact that the system is built to string arbitrary programs together to solve complex problems in simple ways.

One advantage of her Javascript replace is that she can drop it on any machine with a Javascript runtime and it will work, unlike sed.

And the real truth is, she wrote something that solves a problem she has, which is the measure of her success, not someones arbitrary comments.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shocking the historical parallels between Node vs Rails and Rails vs Java. You'd think given the history of Rails that its practitioners (me being one for 7 years) would be more careful about dismissing a new technology for not being as "mature" and that you can "do all the same stuff" in Ruby. I mean lets be honest: there is no outright revolution in Node anymore than Rails was a revolution, rather it's a matte…

I hope Node can keep it's frontier attitude up. Rails and Rake have been very homogenizing boring exercises in top-down fascism. So much of Node's spirit is in tiny modules, in the freedom and ability to hack up and try new things, to always be inventing: it's cost to create are low, the assumed body of knowledge one has to bring into a new project are tiny, the conventions are borderline non existent, and that's all…

The frontier is always settled.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that it's 5-10 minutes to scan each man page every single time I want to use sed, find, xargs, etc. I quickly reach a point where I just think "Fuck it, I'm writing a Python script for this." A simple tool that only takes a couple of minutes to learn, then a five second look at the man page to refresh the syntax is very valuable, particularly if it focuses on doing the one job that people want to do most…

You completely skipped over reading his post, and thus your response makes no sense. Read the docs once , and write your weird syntax version as a shell script. Then you don't need to look it up ever again, because you are using the weird syntax you invented for yourself. It is just much simpler and easier to do it the reasonable way than to write it in javascript.

I didn't misread it at all. I just completely disagree that it's 10 minutes to work out how they all work. And that's every time you want to use them, because few people use them often enough to learn the tools properly.
Post reply on HN