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"I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

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Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#151

Post by jeffdavis »

cturner wrote: post #146
jeffdavis wrote: post #103

In many ways, SQL is the protocol by which we combine programs together.

It's true that it happens, but it's the antipattern of our age. When you have seven applications written against a single database (plus a load of complex SQL that operators use for support), it becomes impractical to refactor the schema. Now your business is evolving around rotting data structures. Companies like Oracle make their money by convincing people that they should adopt this misdesign, and then licensing e…

"impractical to refactor the schema"

Relational theory is intended to make it easier to achieve data independence, including various kinds of schema changes.

You did not offer an alternative, but I am very skeptical that whatever alternative you have in mind somehow improves matters.

"you can't stream data effectively"

If the currently available SQL products don't allow you to stream data effectively, and that's what you need to do, then use something else.

My point was what people are actually doing for IPC. And for the most part, it's using SQL databases. Even communicating between processes in a single application (e.g. related web requests served by different processes), SQL databases dominate.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#152

Post by amcl »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #120
hmsimha wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either you don't consider linux to be 'anything of value' or you haven't read Linus Torvalds' take on c++ http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus

This is amazingly both of the above points 1. A clear and succinct citicism directed at the failings of a language in technical terms 2. Attacking a maker and telling them not to make stuff. However. Like Stallman, we take the rough with the smooth with Torvalds. Some people earn it.

Given Dmitry instigated that incident by attempting himself to "slut-shame" C, I'd say he had that one coming! I think Linus was fed-up there with the nth polite suggestion he re-implement either git or the kernel in C++.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#153

Post by codexon »

melvinmt wrote: post #136

I'm curious to see what Joe thinks about Go.

I was evaluating both languages recently, and the biggest distinction is that Erlang does context switching per "reduction" or function call while Go does context switches only when a go-routine explicitly yields or a message is sent/received.

This means that Erlang can get finer time shared concurrency at the expense of speed.

Anything other differences such as syntax is relatively trivial.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#154

Post by zackmorris »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #149
JPKab wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it revealing that he appeared to not only like Javascript, but liked it better than Python and Ruby. Interesting. I personally have grown to love coding in Javascript, but I'm a dumbass who doesn't know Lua, Erlang, Haskell, etc. It would be interesting to hear his perspective on JS.

I know quite a few languages, and I like Javascript. It has a nice mix of functional, procedural, and object oriented aspects. Once upon a time, it was a horrible language to work in (with browser differences making it infinitely worse); but now, I find I like it. Now, that said, given the choice, I'd choose coffescript. It gives many of the same benefits in a more concise format. It has its warts as well, though, re…

I feel like coffeescript largely exists because of early mistakes in javascript, like no heredoc and places where they weakened the language to make it more convenient, like this one I just discovered today (with workarounds) http://stackoverflow.com/a/14510952/539149 and js has a ton of problems because it separated Array and Object, but overall I think it's still probably my favorite language right now. I like lua too but it's less pure, so aspects of it remind me of older languages like pascal.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#155

Post by andrewflnr »

jhuni wrote: post #61
ghc wrote: post #12

Just for a moment, consider who this man is and what he has done. We would all do well to take a step back and consider his manner of response. Notice that he continued learning new languages after creating Erlang (instead of just evangelizing it at the one true language). He did not immediately say "choose these three languages" as if they were the only ones you could possibly learn. Does it really help our professi…

I don't share your strong focus on "encouraging creation." I think it is more important that we encourage cooperation and sharing then creation. We have no shortage of software being created the problem is we still are extremely bad at fitting things together.

Fitting things together is important, but it exists entirely for the purpose of creating things, which is ultimately in service of end users. Fitting things together is mostly an implementation detail.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#158

Post by emmett »

munificent wrote: post #127
emmett wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do programming languages become part of people's identity so readily, whereas many other things do not? (What do programming languages, operating systems, and text editors all have in common? They're big parts of people's identities...)

Can you point out some things that don't become part of people's identity? My experience is that anything that someone spends more than a tiny amount of time with immediately starts becoming part of who they are. The boundary of our self is constantly spreading outwards onto the things around us. Seems to be part of human nature.

Almost everything is part of someone's identity. But I would venture for most people on this forum, they have a car but don't identify with a car brand.

It used to be of course that you were a Ford man or a Chrysler man. But nowadays it's become much rarer.

I agree that it's natural, but I think that the targets for identification shift over time and I don't think it's random.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#159

Post by SatvikBeri »

emmett wrote: post #125
nialo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's anywhere near that complicated. People argue about languages because languages become part of their identity: It's common to think of oneself as for example a "Lisp Programmer". And if a language is part of your identity than people saying less than amazing things about that language feels like an attack on you personally, and very quickly the discussion devolves into an argument that has nothing i…

But why do programming languages become part of people's identity so readily, whereas many other things do not? (What do programming languages, operating systems, and text editors all have in common? They're big parts of people's identities...)

Because you think in programming languages. They're not just a tool to get from X to Y, they're part of your thought process and literally a significant part of your life experience.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#160

Post by johnpowell »

S4M wrote: post #4

>> Notice there is no quick fix here - if you want a quick fix go buy "learn PHP in ten minutes" and spend the next twenty years googling for "how do I compute the length of a string" I couldn't agree more on that one.

I mostly use PHP. I googled that once. Should I feel shame for not writing my own function when it has already been done?
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