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Core competencies of great hackers

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Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#91

Post by zmimon »

strlen wrote: post #24
jwilliams wrote: post #3

Typing speed? Not sure how much code people here write per hour, but I doubt typing speed is a real issue (the ratio of my staring at the screen thinking versus coding is probably 10:1).

There are at least two people who I'd dub "great hackers" who type essentially, two fingered. One of them suffers from horrible RSI (but, at one point, had the company hire someone to be their hands). The other didn't grow up around computers/type writers (growing up in the 1940s/1950s in Soviet Union), didn't really heavily program until after graduate school and for the first decade mostly programmed by writing cod…

I knew a guy who was wheelchair bound with no use of one hand and the other only semifunctional, able to peck out keys one at a time.

I can't claim he was a great hacker, but he managed to hold his own on the team and even outperformed some. If he can be competent with that level of impairment, I think it's got to be incorrect to claim all great hackers are great typists.

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#92

Post by zmimon »

adatta02 wrote: post #51

The point about text editors is absurd. One because comparing TextMate to vim or emacs is almost apples and oranges. And secondly because writing something Java without completions is going to be horrendously slow just because of all the arcane function and property names.

To me it's kind of a weird arbitrary divide to make. All the text editors mentioned offer IDE like functionality at various levels. They help you with various kinds of auto-complete, context sensitive help, etc. etc. Where is the line that when crossed makes it an IDE an not an editor?

To be fair to the author though, the phrase was "rely on an IDE", not "use an IDE" which is a little different.

I think a more valid way to look at it is that great hackers tend to use highly advanced editors and they totally own them from top to bottom - whether they are in an IDE or not. That might just mean that they have a completely customized eclipse setup and know every hotkey extension innately or (like myself) use powerful editor plugins like viPlugin to ratchet up the productivity.

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#93

Post by mroman »

Think the article should have been titled

"Core Competencies of Coders"

I expected something that would include, at the very least, Algorithms and Data Structures.

Software Construction is not the sole realm of the Hacker.

coder!=hacker

Coding is not the sole realm of Software Construction.

It is too bad that so many people totally mix concepts up like that, playing fast and loose with synonyms in that manner is like wearing a sign saying "I am an ignorant two bit tech person in a hurry"

Say, what about Cray, when he toggled an entire OS (that he designed) into a machine (that he designed) through the front panel switches, in Octal? AND IT WORKED.

Crappy programmer, can't type x number of wpm.

ROFLMAO

EDIT (now that I paused for breath)

Worse programmer even, for not USING A KEYBOARD

ROFLMAO

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#94

Post by psyklic »

I completely disagree with all four points. A hacker can only use TextMate, vim, or emacs? You kidding me? And who writes code at more than 60 wpm -- writing code is a thinking sport, not a race to the finish.

Diving into a large codebase can be important for certain hackers, but honestly this sounds like a skill moreso needed for corporate programmers ...

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#95

Post by mroman »

ardit33 wrote: post #82

"We haven't met a single great hacker that relied on an IDE, although we hear they exist. " -- fcuk you. Really. Just an over generalization/stereotyping at its worst. I am a good hacker, and yes I use an IDE (eclipse to be exact). I have to code java for living (mobile), and I think I am one of the earliest developers in java, and i used to use Textpad, and Vim at my early days. I guess, in your eyes that makes me a…

I think you missed the rely upon part.

Also, I think the main point of what you quoted is that the additional level of abstraction does more harm that it does good when it comes to hacking, not everyday 9-5 in the office type programming.

As I mentioned a bit earlier in this thread, people are confusing programmer and hacker. The two terms are not synonymous.

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#97

Post by plinkplonk »

ibsulon wrote: post #58
strlen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are at least two people who I'd dub "great hackers" who type essentially, two fingered. One of them suffers from horrible RSI (but, at one point, had the company hire someone to be their hands). The other didn't grow up around computers/type writers (growing up in the 1940s/1950s in Soviet Union), didn't really heavily program until after graduate school and for the first decade mostly programmed by writing cod…

Gah - when I was out of school, they could have paid me minimum wage and I'd be thrilled to take a job to be a great hacker's "hands." I can't imagine many better ways to see a master work.

"when I was out of school, they could have paid me minimum wage and I'd be thrilled to take a job to be a great hacker's "hands."

I would be thrilled to do it now, 15 years after graduating.

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#98

Post by mannicken »

Well. I type 100-120 wpm, use Emacs, use primarily FAR or cmd.exe (bash in *nix), and prefer not to debug. I suck though.

Apparently, these four things are not enough to be a great hacker. What I seem to lack is the mental capacity to clearly see problem out of the box as my friends (great hackers) do so I have to use all the tools I can to keep up.

it's the kind of sober, relaxed look at a problem that I think separates great from mediocre. The relaxedness and calmness with which hackers attack problems -- most people I know and myself would be anxious and pissed off about a problem. Hackers on the other hand are comfortable and relaxed with problems, seeing them as something, that is fun to solve. They are like cats who play with the mice before they catch the prey; they are confident in their ability to solve the problem, and completely free of tension or stress.

I have that some of the time but very very rarely and I can say, no editor can even come to the performance-enhancive qualities of Zen-like centering.

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#99

Post by nostrademons »

dmix wrote: post #32
nostrademons wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could that be because you exclude Windows hackers from your definition of "hacker"? I know some folks on the Google Toolbar team. I don't use Toolbar, and neither do any of my friends. It's desktop software, and desktop software for Windows, so I mostly ignore it. But their installed base is huge . I'd wager that if you added up the combined user base of every Web2.0 startup mentioned on this site, you still wouldn't…

Exactly, and look at IE6... combine the amount of every web 1.0 startup's VC funding and you wouldn't have the number of users that used IE6. AND they used Visual Studio. Userbase != great hackers

How do you define "great hackers" then? If you go with the ESR "A great hacker is someone who other great hackers consider a hacker" definition, you get a very inbred, circle-jerk culture. (Which seems to have happened in various corners of the free software world, BTW.) Of course a great hacker would use the same tools as you then...that's how you know they're a great hacker, after all. ;-)

Other metrics like "A great hacker is someone who writes lots of code" are equally ludicrous, because then only Java and Cobol programmers end up as great hackers since those languages are so much more verbose than everything else. ;-)

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#100

Post by nostrademons »

jwilliams wrote: post #54
jrockway wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typing speed is important for the reason the article mentions -- micro-interruptions. Most of the time, you just have to type a few words, and the editor will complete the rest for you. Fine. But a lot of the time, you are typing a symbol for the first time, and autocompletion doesn't really help. It breaks your flow if you can't type this symbol quickly and correctly the first time. (It is also worth pointing out th…

The dismissive attitude of "programming doesn't require typing skills" is extremely naive. Shrug... Well I say that because that's my experience. I've never really been concerned with micro-interruptions. I guess I'm surprised this bothers people so much (It's the macro interruptions that hurt me more). I've been in situations where I've been unable to type (or type quickly). I learnt and grew as a coder more in thos…

It could be that those who don't think so are people who already type fast, and so never notice much of a difference.

I'm in the "typing speed makes no difference" category. However, I already typed 80+ WPM when I started programming (thank you, AIM and MUDs), so I really have no comparison for what it's like to type slowly, except for the couple weeks I spent learning Dvorak. It's really odd for me to look at this thread and see people talking about bringing their typing speed up to 60 WPM.

I could imagine that typing speed would be a problem if you're stuck at 20 WPM or something. I just assume that anyone who does anything significant with computers is at 60 WPM+ already, and at that speed, it really doesn't make a huge difference.

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