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Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

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Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#71

I'm seeing a lot of "he got what he deserved" and "he's gonna have to wash dishes, nobody will hire him" kinds of comments here. This is one of the really broken elements of US culture. We have a culture of revenge and shaming, rather than healing and allowing reparations. This is why we have the highest prison population per-capita in the world; higher than China, higher than Russia, higher than Iran, higher than Cu…

The "nobody will hire him" comments may just be realistic, as most jobs, even low level jobs, screen out felons. Even jobs one would think are amenable to felons, like oil roughnecks in North Dakota, are now staffed by large agencies who weed out felons. These days it's doubly tough for ex-cons because they are competing with millions of unemployed people who don't have a felon rap sheet.

If he's really interested in tech, one thing he could do is try to get involved with an organization that is religious related, such as making a church website, or helping out with an Access database. This might sound strange since vengance-oriented churches are so popular these days, but the Midwest still has many liberal church organizations into forgiveness and second chances and that sort of thing. In Indiana, I would suggest looking at Quaker oriented organizations, maybe even Earlham College.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#74
post #71

I'm seeing a lot of "he got what he deserved" and "he's gonna have to wash dishes, nobody will hire him" kinds of comments here. This is one of the really broken elements of US culture. We have a culture of revenge and shaming, rather than healing and allowing reparations. This is why we have the highest prison population per-capita in the world; higher than China, higher than Russia, higher than Iran, higher than Cu…

The "nobody will hire him" comments may just be realistic, as most jobs, even low level jobs, screen out felons. Even jobs one would think are amenable to felons, like oil roughnecks in North Dakota, are now staffed by large agencies who weed out felons. These days it's doubly tough for ex-cons because they are competing with millions of unemployed people who don't have a felon rap sheet. If he's really interested in…

> This might sound strange since vengance-oriented churches are so popular these days, but the Midwest still has many liberal church organizations that are into forgiveness and second chances and that sort of thing. In Indiana, I would suggest looking at Quaker oriented organizations, maybe even Earlham College.

This is a great suggestion.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any thoughts on this remote Rails class: http://www.gotealeaf.com/ I'd be willing to pay the tuition if it's really useful for someone who has still not ever seen/used a web browser.

It would take more information to properly determine what the best starting poing would be for him; but if he has not used a web browser I suggests starting w/ 1. email setup 2. google 3. facebook etc... basically as much basic computer usage as possible; IMO rails classes like that and pretty much everyone else is going to assume their audience is comfortable w/ computers and other modern day technologies.

So this is one of things I was specifically looking for: Exactly what does he need to learn immediately? What is the best set of tools he should experience and submerge himself with to really understand the internet, both as a consumer and as a potential creator?

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#76
I would focus on helping him build community, the more community he has around him the better he'll cope, integrate and thrive.

So say your getting him in on ruby or python or mobile dev, start taking him along to as many meetups as you can find. A bar camp or RailsCamp would be great to.

The hackerspace movement is very open and accepting and beginner friendly IMHO, I'd get him in on that too.

If he can build up a community in tech around him then the code part has a good foundation to thrive in. Think of his needs in terms of 'structures for success'.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#77

I'm seeing a lot of "he got what he deserved" and "he's gonna have to wash dishes, nobody will hire him" kinds of comments here. This is one of the really broken elements of US culture. We have a culture of revenge and shaming, rather than healing and allowing reparations. This is why we have the highest prison population per-capita in the world; higher than China, higher than Russia, higher than Iran, higher than Cu…

If I'm hiring for a job, all other things being equal, why choose the felon? It's possible, maybe even likely, that the person was reformed in prison. But if I choose the non-felon, then I don't even have to worry about it.

To be honest, though, it depends a heavily on what the person's crime was. Do I care that a guy got caught with a pound of weed? No. Do I care that he embezzled from his employer? Definitely. A guy who killed his cheating wife isn't a big concern, but I could never trust a guy who "snapped" and assaulted some random person.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#78

I'm seeing a lot of "he got what he deserved" and "he's gonna have to wash dishes, nobody will hire him" kinds of comments here. This is one of the really broken elements of US culture. We have a culture of revenge and shaming, rather than healing and allowing reparations. This is why we have the highest prison population per-capita in the world; higher than China, higher than Russia, higher than Iran, higher than Cu…

I still don't think nonviolent drug crimes are the same as bank robbery. When you commit a bank robbery with a loaded firearm, you're telling society you have no problem taking a person's life for a little money. If people change, why is the recidivism rate for felons over 50%? And those are just the ones who get caught. Again, I'm speaking strictly to violent crimes here. Nonviolent/drug offenders should be treated…

> Why is the recidivism rate for felons over 50%?

Because it's damn near impossible to make an honest living with a felony conviction on your record in the current economy. The mentality of "Why should you get the same as honest men like me" is one that has societal costs, but it is a third rail of politics, as no congressman is going to make an argument for lighter sentencing, or easier integration of felons. In reality, all felony sentences are life sentences, and this is something we need to fix.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#79
Even with a masters degree, he's certainly going to have a smaller pool of job opportunities than a non-felon just by the fact he is a felon. But that doesn't mean there is not a bunch of opportunities for him. I've worked with several felons at different places. Programmers and IT. Not every company cares about that. Just like not every company cares to have you pass a drug test. But he should probably forget about any jobs in the financial sector as they tend to be pretty strict on hiring felons (and being a bank robber is probably a double whammy). My only advice would be to be totally up front about his past and don't let the "no thank yous" get him down.

However, I would say that he might be facing almost as much trouble getting over the fact that he is 40 with very little industry experience. Honestly, this might actually be worse to some companies. I have no idea what he had to work with in prison, but 18 years away from real world tech might have him slightly behind the curve. Maybe my perception of technology in prison is not accurate.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#80
My #1 bit of advice would be for him to read How to Win Friends and Influence People.

Yes, really. If you need to brush up on your social skills, it's the go-to guide. You can practice it even without having close personal or business relationships… on anybody you meet on the street, in a shop, online, etc. It's a little bit cheesy, but not at all scummy… the basic advice is something everyone should follow, and yet most do not. Following the advice is something that can set anyone apart from the crowd (in a positive way)... ESPECIALLY in the tech world.

#2 With those social skills, and what he's learning technically, my second bit of advice would be to tackle it on. Be up front about the mistake. When he applies for a job or talks to someone, he should tell them. Not Scarlet Letter-style, but in a way like this:

"I came by xyz lessons the hard way. I was really stupid at jkl age… it's hard to believe how stupid! But there's nobody more than me who knows the value of abc."

Help him figure out how this experience has made him BETTER. Sometimes the hard way is the best way to learn something.

It sounds like he's learned a lot in his time behind bars… dedication, for one. Most people never complete a master's much less in such adverse circumstances. Maybe he learned the lesson about making decisions in emotional circumstances. Maybe now he's a calm, cool, cautious individual… or maybe he's just not going to jump the gun. Maybe he learned something about surviving in tough social situations. How to befriend difficult people. Or something else, equally powerful.

One thing: If he hides his past, it'll only come back to bite him, when people find out about it via background checks. If he owns it, and sounds mature, and honest, then that'll be a feather in his cap. He didn't murder anyone; he made a crime against property. You can recover from that, socially.

#3 He should write about it. He should write about learning programming (or whatever he decides to tackle), doing his master's program in prison, will he finish his PhD, etc. People trust a person who is honest about his flaws (maybe more than they should, sometimes!), and they love a person who can communicate. They also love somebody who they can learn from. Plus writing is a very valuable skill, and it could do a lot to rehabilitate a person's image.

Best of luck to your friend.

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