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Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

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Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#31

Post by melvinmt »

Saying "nobody's going to hire an ex-felon, wash dishes" is very encouraging guys. :S

This is someone who already has paid his debt to society. Why continue to damn him after he's trying to work his way up again. I'd rather be naive and give someone like him a second chance. Unfortunately I don't have a lot to offer at the moment but I can seem to remember from the "Help HN, I'm homeless" thread that there are many people on HN who are willing (and able) to help someone out in need.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#32

Post by SwellJoe »

pbj wrote: post #20

"and have been telling him that his only chance of financial independence is through writing code" There are tons of trade skills that he could learn quickly at a local community college. Plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, hvac repair, etc.. can make seriously good money and his felony would likely not be as big of a factor either. Especially if he went into business himself.

A good friend of mine is a felon and a union master electrician. He makes a decent living, when there's work, and his past doesn't seem to make a difference to his employers. There are definitely many paths one can take; code is a really good one, let's be honest, but it's not the only one.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#33

Post by rdl »

newbie12 wrote: post #13
tesmar2 wrote: post #3

First off, great job in being involved in this guy's life. He really needs people like you to help him get on his feet and recover. I'd say introduce him to a recruiter who has a lot of connections and can get something going for him. If that doesn't pan out, perhaps some biz owner here on HN might hire him.

Wow this is naive. Nobody is going to hire a felon parolee for anything other than menial work. I don't think there are recruiters for washing dishes. The only hope, as the OP says, is to figure out a way to market a tech skill directly, or to start something on his own.

It probably depends on exactly what the crime was, but bank robbery or fraud are going to be tough.

(I'd be ok with hiring someone with a manslaughter conviction or other thing if it were not calling character into question. Or, something like a principled hacking conviction would probably be ok in most roles, although clients often care about felony status.)

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#34

Post by gavinlynch »

outworlder wrote: post #23
hvs wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for challenging the current US justice system, but I'm not sure why "posed no threat" is your only standard for who should be in prison. He did actually violate the property rights of other people. Prison, in mine and many others' opinions, is not just about rehabilitation.

What is it about then? I see only one reason for a person to be locked up: 1- He poses a threat to society and should be removed, as not to endanger others. Prison it is not about education, it is not about rehabilitation. It is required to keep dangerous individuals from causing further harm (the other option would be the capital punishment). Prisons are also used as punishment, but that's a side-effect. There are o…

>> "Prisons are also used as punishment, but that's a side-effect. There are other ways of having a non-violent (or no longer violent) person repay his debt to society."

Is this accurate? Depriving someone of normal civilian rights seems pretty punitive to me. And regarding other ways for people to repay their debts to societies: I'm interested in hearing what else we could be doing with these people.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#35

Post by rdl »

newbie12 wrote: post #13
tesmar2 wrote: post #3

First off, great job in being involved in this guy's life. He really needs people like you to help him get on his feet and recover. I'd say introduce him to a recruiter who has a lot of connections and can get something going for him. If that doesn't pan out, perhaps some biz owner here on HN might hire him.

Wow this is naive. Nobody is going to hire a felon parolee for anything other than menial work. I don't think there are recruiters for washing dishes. The only hope, as the OP says, is to figure out a way to market a tech skill directly, or to start something on his own.

It probably depends on exactly what the crime was, but bank robbery of fraud are going to be tough.

(I'd be ok with hiring someone with a manslaughter conviction or other thing if it were not calling character into question. Or, something like a principled hacking conviction would probably be ok in most roles, although clients often care about felony status.)

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#36

Post by Geee »

testimoney wrote: post #5
eduardordm wrote: post #2

First, a rant: I always get shocked about how the US justice system works, where punishing (and revenge) is obviously more important than protecting humans. He should have been released as soon as he posed no threat to others. If the US keeps its current course there will be more people inside prisons than outside of them in the future. He certainly has a lot of expectations. I can only imagine the pressure he is put…

Prisons is not only about threat to others, its also about punishment. Someone could maybe kill a whole family, then after a year in prison have an "enlightenment", become religious, have regrets about the killing, and knowing himself that he won't do it again, he still deserves his full prison sentence!

You're wrong. The whole system should be based on crime prevention, not punishment.

There should be better predictors of how likely a person is going to repeat the crime and keep him locked up for that amount of time. Also, predictors of how likely it is for someone to make their first crime, so it could be prevented in the first place.

I'm pretty sure that it's possible to predict future criminals from their Facebook data etc, and just send those people somewhere else where their environment matches their behavior.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#37

Post by syedkarim »

ExpiredLink wrote: post #19

> and have been telling him that his only chance of financial independence is through writing code I don't get this. Neither will "writing code" make him more "independent" than other jobs nor is it likely that he will get a job in this field.

I see a career in code as being one based on merit, versus others that are based on credentials or politics. I believe that if he can make things that people appreciate, then the money will follow. In theory, right?

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#38

Post by FaceKicker »

eduardordm wrote: post #22
hvs wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for challenging the current US justice system, but I'm not sure why "posed no threat" is your only standard for who should be in prison. He did actually violate the property rights of other people. Prison, in mine and many others' opinions, is not just about rehabilitation.

I think because I live in an extremely violent place it changed the way I think about prisons. I'm not saying that you or me are right or wrong, really. Most criminals are already living in hell. You send them to a prison with this idea that you are punishing them with the clear intention of feeling good in some way (maybe closure?). What people lack of understanding is that prisons are not real punishment for those…

> What people lack of understanding is that prisons are not real punishment for those who are actually there. Some of them might even like it. So, prisons are not efficient in punishment nor rehabilitation.

Maybe they're not effective punishment or rehabilitation, but I would certainly say they're an effective deterrent. They might not be a punishment for anyone in there, but they could still be (and at least in my case, certainly are) seen as a punishment for some people who aren't in there. I would bet that a prison sentence is a much better deterrent than, say, volunteer hours or a fine. Whether deterring bank robberies is a valuable enough goal is a matter of opinion I suppose.

Obviously this is all conjecture, if someone can pull up a study showing that prison sentences don't have any deterrent effect over other forms of punishment then I'd accept that I'm wrong... But I'd be somewhat shocked if that were the case.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#39

Post by SwellJoe »

Irregardless wrote: post #29
pbj wrote: post #20

"and have been telling him that his only chance of financial independence is through writing code" There are tons of trade skills that he could learn quickly at a local community college. Plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, hvac repair, etc.. can make seriously good money and his felony would likely not be as big of a factor either. Especially if he went into business himself.

His felony wouldn't be a big deal for employers who would potentially be sending him into people's homes on a regular basis? I have to strongly disagree with that one.

A large percentage of work for plumbers, electricians, HVAC, etc. is in new construction. It might be an issue for some employers, but it won't be for others.

Re: Ask HN: Any advice for someone getting out of prison after 18 years?

#40

Post by mathetic »

kjackson2012 wrote: post #6
eduardordm wrote: post #2

First, a rant: I always get shocked about how the US justice system works, where punishing (and revenge) is obviously more important than protecting humans. He should have been released as soon as he posed no threat to others. If the US keeps its current course there will be more people inside prisons than outside of them in the future. He certainly has a lot of expectations. I can only imagine the pressure he is put…

He shouldn't have committed the crime in the first place. End of story. If he knew that bank robbing was a crime and he committed it anyway, he deserves whatever punishment was meted out to him. People could (or may) have been killed over his greed for money. That being said, I have no problems with the notion of helping ex-cons try to turn their lives around, after they've paid their debt to society. I am a supporte…

I'm taking a wild guess and claiming that you have no idea about spending about a quarter of your life time (that's if you're lucky) in prison. End of story. You cannot possibly understand what it means to be in prison for such a long time and not being free but as if you could you're claiming that he deserved what he got.
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