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"I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

erlang.org

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Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#51

Post by pekk »

dagw wrote: post #36
pekk wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Javascript is a very different language from Python. It is in some ways more flexible and less prescriptive. You point out one of the non-overlapping use cases. Javascript performance has seen really intensive efforts. Javascript has grown a rather nice async ecosystem that Python just doesn't have. It's also exciting for people from the standpoint that everything feels newer and more up for grabs. Python is a rather…

Python is a rather old language. A massive 3 years older Javascript.

Python hit its stride a long time ago. The Javascript ecosystem has only quite recently reached sufficient performance, usability and adoption to be a serious general purpose language and it's red hot as a job skill. Python is not dead, but it's not exactly blowing up at this point.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#52

Post by rdtsc »

minikomi wrote: post #37
hellerbarde wrote: post #3

This is very well written. A very interesting and verbose (not in a bad way) way of answering the everpresent question "What language should I learn?" PS: Yes, I know that not the whole discussion was about this question. Still.

I'm pretty blown away by how well written and civil a lot of posts are on this thread.

Erlang mailing is a pleasure to read. Even as mix of different ages and experience levels (heck, Joe is a regular poster), the conversation is always civil.

I read it every day along with hn and a few other blogs.

http://erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#53

Post by pekk »

__alexs wrote: post #28
koide wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Javascript has true closures, Python doesn't (or didn't?)

Python has closures, it just doesn't have a very convenient anonymous function syntax. I can't say I miss function () { .. } very often though.

I like Python's scoping rules but declaring functions inline is a lot nicer and nicer-looking than defining functions starting with underscores.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#54

Post by pekk »

ghc wrote: post #12

Just for a moment, consider who this man is and what he has done. We would all do well to take a step back and consider his manner of response. Notice that he continued learning new languages after creating Erlang (instead of just evangelizing it at the one true language). He did not immediately say "choose these three languages" as if they were the only ones you could possibly learn. Does it really help our professi…

I thought this site was for the betterment of startup entrepreneurs, not hacking.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#55

Post by bo1024 »

laumars wrote: post #24
s_husso wrote: post #17

>> The crazy think is we still are extremely bad at fitting things together - still the best way of fitting things together is the unix pipe Is that sad or pure genius?

I struggled with that point of his. From a coding speed perspective, he's right. But from an efficiency perspective, even some of the slowest interpreted languages will run circles around a shell script. However it's still an interesting and thought provoking point. It makes you wonder about other ways of plugging different objects / modules together.

He doesn't mean literally the "|" in bash, he means the general concept.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#56

Post by minikomi »

rdtsc wrote: post #52
minikomi wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty blown away by how well written and civil a lot of posts are on this thread.

Erlang mailing is a pleasure to read. Even as mix of different ages and experience levels (heck, Joe is a regular poster), the conversation is always civil. I read it every day along with hn and a few other blogs. http://erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/

Hmm... hn has been doing a very good job at convincing me to get my feet wet with erlang lately :)

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#57

Post by pekk »

calinet6 wrote: post #42
3pt14159 wrote: post #11

To me, this list is great except for one small thing. - C - Prolog - Erlang - Smalltalk - Javascript - Hakell / ML /OCaml - LISP/Scheme/Clojure Javascript?! Over Ruby or Python or Lua? What is it with people liking Javascript. I really don't get it. What can I do that is so beautiful or mindbending that I can't do in python? From my experience there is only two reasons to learn Javascript: to be able to build web app…

What is it with people liking a specific language in general? Didn't you read the whole post? "Today there is an unhealthy concentration on language and efficiency and NOT on how things fit together and protocols - teach protocols and not languages." Exactly. Forget the language. Use it if it works for what you need to do. Learn to program correctly, learn how things fit together, how you can use languages together a…

> What is it with people liking a specific language

What is it with shaming people for preferring a specific language where it is applicable?

For some reason I can like a brand of electric drill, and I can believe in using a nailgun, but I am not allowed to like a specific language without someone coming along to scold me.

If you don't ever develop opinions about tools and how to use them, are you really engaged or are you just floating along? Liking something is a good sign of engagement, being able to compare it to others in an informed way is even better. The problem is if you put other things down without knowing about them.

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#58

Post by [deleted] »

ghc wrote: post #12

Just for a moment, consider who this man is and what he has done. We would all do well to take a step back and consider his manner of response. Notice that he continued learning new languages after creating Erlang (instead of just evangelizing it at the one true language). He did not immediately say "choose these three languages" as if they were the only ones you could possibly learn. Does it really help our professi…

[deleted]

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#59

Post by nialo »

davidw wrote: post #15
ghc wrote: post #12

Just for a moment, consider who this man is and what he has done. We would all do well to take a step back and consider his manner of response. Notice that he continued learning new languages after creating Erlang (instead of just evangelizing it at the one true language). He did not immediately say "choose these three languages" as if they were the only ones you could possibly learn. Does it really help our professi…

> If we stopped bickering so much about what is the "right language", "right framework", "right library" Programmers are sometimes maximizers rather than satisficers for this kind of thing. We don't want to know if something is ok and will get the job done, we want the best one. I think people argue for their language out of some sense of the network effects involved: if I can get more people using my language, there…

I don't think it's anywhere near that complicated. People argue about languages because languages become part of their identity: It's common to think of oneself as for example a "Lisp Programmer". And if a language is part of your identity than people saying less than amazing things about that language feels like an attack on you personally, and very quickly the discussion devolves into an argument that has nothing in particular to do with the actual languages as such.

(http://paulgraham.com/identity.html talks about this some, I'm sure there are other better references I can't find right now.)

Re: "I couldn't really learn Erlang, 'cos it didn't exist, so I invented it"

#60

Post by nik61 »

pekk wrote: post #54
ghc wrote: post #12

Just for a moment, consider who this man is and what he has done. We would all do well to take a step back and consider his manner of response. Notice that he continued learning new languages after creating Erlang (instead of just evangelizing it at the one true language). He did not immediately say "choose these three languages" as if they were the only ones you could possibly learn. Does it really help our professi…

I thought this site was for the betterment of startup entrepreneurs, not hacking.

... and the site's name is?
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