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What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

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Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point. Once I read the names of those involved, I was a little taken aback for this very reason. Friends I respect think quite highly of Corey, for instance. Also worth noting, both [Steve and Corey] have published apologies on their own blogs. Both are worth reading.

Here's a link to that apology: http://programmingtour.blogspot.com/2013/01/im-sorry.html I know Corey and don't really know too much about what happened here, so I'll only say he's one of the most positive and supportive people I know.

-1 in my regard for being a jerk. +2 for a sincere apology. A reminder that owning up to a mistake can make that mistake go away and then some.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#532
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the other apology, http://blog.steveklabnik.com/posts/2013-01-23-node Heather, don't take it personally - your code is fine! JavaScript, on the other hand, is a wounded warrior by now..

My takeaway: "Twitter makes it so hard not to accidentally be an asshole."

No, Steve Klabnik being an asshole makes it so hard for him to not accidentally be an asshole.

Look at this quote:

> nothing's _wrong_ with it, but I don't want to build my app on top of others' code who are at this level of understanding

What a prick!

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point. Once I read the names of those involved, I was a little taken aback for this very reason. Friends I respect think quite highly of Corey, for instance. Also worth noting, both [Steve and Corey] have published apologies on their own blogs. Both are worth reading.

Here's David Cramer's notpology: http://justcramer.com/2013/01/24/being-wrong-on-the-internet...

Hate to say it but I think his post is fair and to the point.

You don't have to like what he said but he puts it in context and within the realm of Twitter - a 140 limited space of communication.

His original tweet was "Ever wanted to make sed or grep worse?".

Really. Can we not be critical on the internet any more?

And here is EVERYONE saying worse things about him in the comments!?

Go look in the mirror people. I'll take the downvotes.

[updated: typos]

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#534
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's David Cramer's notpology: http://justcramer.com/2013/01/24/being-wrong-on-the-internet...

Wow, David Cramer is a total asshole! That Steve Klabnik guy is also an asshole. The only one who doesn't appear to a complete dick is Corey Haines, whose apology was better. Not great, but better. Here's the thing - if you ever even consider saying things like this to someone on the internet, you're an asshole. It's not a one time accidental thing. Nope, it's in your personality. I hope I never meet either of these…

I'm sorry what? If you even consider saying that code is like an existing project but not good, or implying that a piece of code is badly written, you're an asshole!?

Don't you think you're taking this a bit far?

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point. Once I read the names of those involved, I was a little taken aback for this very reason. Friends I respect think quite highly of Corey, for instance. Also worth noting, both [Steve and Corey] have published apologies on their own blogs. Both are worth reading.

Here's David Cramer's notpology: http://justcramer.com/2013/01/24/being-wrong-on-the-internet...

This is bound to be an unpopular opinion, but why exactly does anyone have to apologize? He's absolutely right. Criticism comes from every corner, especially in the software world.

Your code stands for itself. Simple as that.

And I tell this to almost every programmer I work with at some point or another. If they have an emotional response to a code review, or criticism of any kind—"Code is never personal. Whatever I say about your code has nothing to do with you. All I want is for us to improve this together, and we do that by exchanging ideas."

Criticisms are never directed at people, they are never intended to be personal attacks—they are simply evaluations of quality, and we're all trying to achieve higher quality. When you put code out there, you open it up to response. If people decide that it's good, then great; if people decide that it's bad, then great! You have an opportunity to improve it. That is a godsend. It's a million times better than if you received no feedback at all.

Male, female, good coder, bad coder, I don't care who you are: if you go sob in a corner because you receive criticism, then you're not going to improve. You have to join the discussion like an adult. Cramer may have an asshole opinion here, but sometimes assholes are right. Sometimes the world is harsh, but through adversity we can become better. Deal with it.

* Update: Well, I've read up more. These criticisms were not the productive kind, and were tactless and mean. I stand by what I said, but the people in question didn't criticize right, and they deserve the vitriol being directed at them. Shame.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#536
post #532
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My takeaway: "Twitter makes it so hard not to accidentally be an asshole."

No, Steve Klabnik being an asshole makes it so hard for him to not accidentally be an asshole. Look at this quote: > nothing's _wrong_ with it, but I don't want to build my app on top of others' code who are at this level of understanding What a prick!

Yeah... criticizing code is one thing (perfectly acceptable IMHO), but turning it personal made him into an asshole.

Note that of course there's an element of "uncomfortable truth" to this—evaluating programmers' ability is probably a good thing, and he's right to a degree. We all know amazing and experienced programmers who write libraries that are like diamonds in the rough compared to other coders' work, but 1) you have to be tactful; you don't put people down for their code no matter what, because 2) you have to help them get there, and negativity is not how you do that.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#537
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, David Cramer is a total asshole! That Steve Klabnik guy is also an asshole. The only one who doesn't appear to a complete dick is Corey Haines, whose apology was better. Not great, but better. Here's the thing - if you ever even consider saying things like this to someone on the internet, you're an asshole. It's not a one time accidental thing. Nope, it's in your personality. I hope I never meet either of these…

I'm sorry what? If you even consider saying that code is like an existing project but not good, or implying that a piece of code is badly written, you're an asshole!? Don't you think you're taking this a bit far?

He didn't merely say the project "wasn't good", he implied it in a snarky, very unconstructive way.

Here's his quote from twitter:

>Ever wanted to make sed or grep worse? http://github.com/harthur/replace

In the world I live in, that's called being an asshole.

Look, I'm not saying these guys should apologize (in fact, if this is how they apologize it's probably best they don't), I'm simply stating that they're dicks. I know a lot of computer programmers just like them.

Edit: And I hate working with people like them. I don't care how brilliant they are, programming is a team sport in most places. If you're a jerk I don't want you on my team, no matter how many awesome sed scripts you can whip up.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#538
post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a link to that apology: http://programmingtour.blogspot.com/2013/01/im-sorry.html I know Corey and don't really know too much about what happened here, so I'll only say he's one of the most positive and supportive people I know.

-1 in my regard for being a jerk. +2 for a sincere apology. A reminder that owning up to a mistake can make that mistake go away and then some.

People make mistakes all the time. If it's someone you know in person then you should probably give an apology (or vice-versa, depending on the situation). Someone has to own up because if it doesn't happen, you can end up with an ill workplace/relationship/whatever.

But the internet can be a strange place. How do you apologize to strangers? With blogs? I mean, these pieces are going around being viewed by hundreds of people. Is it really helping? I'm not sure, but, at the very least, people are trying.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Welcome to the Internet. If you do something, chances are someone hates you. You know, this is really what we have to keep in mind, or at least try to any way. Doesn't stop it from stinging a bit when it happens though. Especially when they are the first kind of comment you receive when you show a project in a public forum. I usually expect a couple of 'Fuck you. My eye's are bleeding from your coding." style commen…

If I've learned one thing is that the Reddit community is not friendly. I swear to God, there must be a underground competition to who can bully and troll more users there.

On the main subs, I think it is that there has been a down tick in the average user age. Being on the site and not being logged into my account feels quite a bit like visiting my 14 year old little brother facebook page. Just kind of base-line, 14 year old funny.

My point being, I think a percentage of the trolling may come from that demographic. It's not rare to run across account that literally was set up just to hurl insults and racism. I just imagine that there are a group of 14 year olds sitting on the other side which boast to each other about how much negative Karma their 'troll' accounts have.

In other areas, I think it's that some people just take karma far too seriously. I used to spend a lot of time in the language specific learnprogramming subreddits. It seemed like a nice way to help the 'community,' without having to do the race to the answer game that you do on stackoverflow.

I learned that some of the most unbelievably childish people hang out in the language specific threads so they can play 'expert.' I ran into a couple of users that would downvote every answer in the thread that wasn't theirs. I sent one a message about reddiquette and that fact that he's really being a bit of a dick in our small community, but his response was to downvote all of my posts, and say that all other answers were wrong but his (they weren't).

Needless to say, it seemed a waste of effort to continue to post if everything was just going to be buried thanks to some guy's e-ego.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#540

I'm so tired of this. In honor of harthur's efforts, and to take a stand against bullying, I've decided to fork the project. I'm currently porting it to Python! https://github.com/kennethreitz/replace I encourage others to do the same in their respective languages :)

Thanks, Kenneth. Actually, I've already forked and used harthur's code several times in the past -- she's written some really cool machine learning stuff for JavaScript that is easy to read. I've used it as the basis for playing around with machine learning in Python and JavaScript, and last year I tried (unsuccessfully, I think) to use d3 to create a nice visualization of her implementation of the k-means algorithm[0].

My visualization turned out poorly (I've had a few suggestions on how to make it better that I need to integrate, and am still open to additional suggestions). However, that obviously had nothing to do with harthur's excellent clusterfck library that I used[1].

Really, when you look over harthur's github contributions, she seems like the ideal open source contributor. She uses permissive licensing, writes clean code (in my opinion), uses unit tests, documents a lot of her code, chooses cool projects, etc. These are features I'm striving to integrate into my own code as I try to transition into programming as a profession instead of just a hobby (and I'm slowly getting there).

0. http://www.ericbullington.com/articles/2012/01/31/kmeans-vis... 1. https://github.com/harthur/clusterfck

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