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Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

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Re: Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

#61

Post by runeks »

dalke wrote: post #16
MrCheese wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you have no interest in watching the programs. Then it's horribly expensive

I'm in that category. I'm in American living in Sweden. In the US I watched very little TV. Here in Sweden, I don't at all. Most of the video I watch, outside of stupid-internet-clips, are recorded meeting lectures, like from PyCon. (What can I say. I'm boring.) I have a small software business, which I run out of my home. Sometimes I pull down multi-GB data sets. So it's not like I easily downgrade my network to sub…

In Denmark, DR ("Danish Broadcasting") started building a concert hall some years ago - for the modest price of €430 million.

When the construction was done, the bill landed at €670 million. That's your TV license money at work right there.

Re: Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

#62

Post by rmk2 »

josteink wrote: post #19
rmk2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that you in theory (!!!) get media this way that do not depend on advertisement and are thus more independent from industry influence. This in turn leads to you being able to profit from this even if you do not watch the programs and/or listen to the radio, simply because this injects a different kind of media into the media landscape which in turn other media interact with (newspapers, websites, blogs e…

> The point is that you in theory (!!!) get media this way that do not depend on advertisement and are thus more independent from industry influence. Instead you get a media-station which is entirely dependent on continued blessing from the government. So much better. That severely limits how impartial it gets to be, and the similar system we have in Norway has consistently proven to provide media-coverage leaning fu…

Again, I see the overall goal as having a balanced media system. I wrote in a reply further down about the same thing. A balanced system does not mean each element has to be balanced (or "impartial"). A government-funded media station still counteracts a commercially funded media outlet on a much more fundamental functional basis than just political ideology.

Both public and private media are in my opinion necessary parts of an overall functioning and thus independent media system. This system, like every complex system, is only able to achieve "impartiality" from a certain point of observation, in this case that of the comparing listener/reader/viewer basing judgement on multiple outlets.

Re: Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

#63

Post by runeks »

yobo wrote: post #51

Just a sidenote. The fact that it's a fee instead of tax means that the government cannot change how much money SVT should receive. This means that journalists are not controlled by neither politicians or companies. This means that we have real journalism and free media. And I find that awesome =)

> The fact that it's a fee instead of tax means that the government cannot change how much money SVT should receive.

What do you mean? Politicians can change any law they wish. Unless it's in violation of the constitution. And I don't think withdrawing mandatory financial support to public broadcasting is prohibited in many constitutions.

Re: Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

#64

Post by fauigerzigerk »

dspence wrote: post #32
samwillis wrote: post #12

I think it is only a matter of time before the UK moves to something like this. We have TV licensees to fund the BBC but with more and more of the content that they produce being available on-line though iPlayer things will have to change. I believe the BBC's charter is up for renegotiation in about four years and it would be the perfect time to make the change.

I actually think this is pretty reasonable - everybody I know consumes BBC content in some form (most of them without paying the license fee) and it's a small price to pay for the presence of an impartial news source.

How can an organization be impartial if the members of its board are appointed by the government and its funding is renegotiated every year?

We saw in 2003 what happens when the BBC disagrees with the government. The government wins. A minor mistake by a single reporter was excuse enough to get the entire BBC leadership fired for its criticism of the Iraq war.

Apparently impartiality means to shut up when the Prime Minister lies to parliament and to the nation.

Re: Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

#65

Post by yobo »

runeks wrote: post #63
yobo wrote: post #51

Just a sidenote. The fact that it's a fee instead of tax means that the government cannot change how much money SVT should receive. This means that journalists are not controlled by neither politicians or companies. This means that we have real journalism and free media. And I find that awesome =)

> The fact that it's a fee instead of tax means that the government cannot change how much money SVT should receive. What do you mean? Politicians can change any law they wish. Unless it's in violation of the constitution. And I don't think withdrawing mandatory financial support to public broadcasting is prohibited in many constitutions.

They cannot do that during one period. They can only suggest such change and then the next elected government can approve it. This way the people will always be able to vote against such government. And I really doubt any party would suggest any drastic change on this topic.

Re: Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

#66

Post by OrdojanAndrius »

Svip wrote: post #49
OrdojanAndrius wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what? How do you not pay it? Just throw out the bills they send you?

Since they are not the government, they cannot legally gain entrance to your property (actually, neither can the government without a warrant, but they cannot get a warrant either). They send you a letter, asking you to sign up to pay the media licence or sign a declaration that you own no such devices. The declaration - however - is legally binding and there are huge fines for breaking such a declaration. However, t…

Seems like this could get me in trouble. Also I don't remember signing any document I just started receiving the bills. I live in a dormitory so maybe that somehow affects the issue.

Re: Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

#67

Post by MrCheese »

petercooper wrote: post #40
MrCheese wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! A varied collection of premium content from various sources will together form a much broader and more accurate picture than trusting "independent" media with your life.

I suspect it depends on what the offering is. If I had to choose between every commercial TV channel and the BBC for the rest of my life, the BBC would get my vote without hesitation (assuming it maintained its current level of quality).

The offering is a different perspective.

Re: Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

#68

Post by dalke »

g_lined wrote: post #34
dalke wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why not just pay for it out of taxes like Finland does? That seems cheaper overall than a license fee system with inspectors. And if your view is valid, then that means the small (<3%) of the people with no TV and no internet are getting a social benefit without paying for it.

Because if it's funded by the Government then it becomes a Government TV station. Using a 'BBC' method where there is a law requiring the license fee to be paid and allows for a third party to collect it and deliver the money direct to the broadcaster. This design can loosen the influence the government has on the channel. Whether you agree with the outcome or not, the idea is that the BBC's of this world are not gov…

In which case you believe the Finnish Broadcasting Company is now a government spokes-channel, no?

Does it not make a difference that it's set up as an hypothecated tax, where revenue from the Yle tax is dedicated to go to Yleisradio?

Re: Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

#69

Post by LatvjuAvs »

noarchy wrote: post #60
takluyver wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand: TV programs break off every 15 minutes (or more) for various corporations to assault your eyes and ears with messages crafted to make you want to buy their rubbish. And many people consider this a norm. Of course, an entity that is dependent on these commercial interests won't want to upset them too much, in case they take their advertising elsewhere. Brit here: having a publicly funded broadcaster…

All of that advertising still boils down to choice. I can refuse to purchase the goods that they're constantly peddling. The system is voluntary. Meanwhile, I cannot refuse the taxes/fees that the government decides to levy. In my own country (Canada), I am taxed for CBC whether I wish to watch/listen or not.

Essentially it boils down to "we as a government can't trust you, so we have to enforce these laws and you must comply or else you will face our enforcers".

Sadly, choice of 3 men overwrites choice of 3 million.

Trust is lacking, not only between governing body and sheep, but between sheep also, when sheep will start trusting each other, it will reflect on governing body.

Re: Sweden To Charge TV Tax For Anyone With A Computer or Tablet

#70

Post by _b8r0 »

thisone wrote: post #43
dspence wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think this is pretty reasonable - everybody I know consumes BBC content in some form (most of them without paying the license fee) and it's a small price to pay for the presence of an impartial news source.

I'd have to agree. We don't watch live to air anymore, but we do use the heck out of iPlayer. When it came around to renewing the license a few months ago, we made the conscious decision to renew it, even though we legally didn't need to (no sat receiver, no aerial). I know a lot of people will call us stupid for doing so, but I'm also convinced that the BBC will lobby (or whatever they need to do) for changes to the…

> I know a lot of people will call us stupid for doing so, but I'm also convinced that the BBC will lobby (or whatever they need to do) for changes to the licensing laws once the UK officially is out of the economic danger zone.

I'm not entirely sure where you've got this idea from, but you do realise that the bulk of the BBC's funding comes from the licence fee[1], and that TVL (the organisation that sends nasty letters through the post if you don't have TV[2]) is part of the BBC[3], right?

[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_Uni...

[2] - http://www.bbctvlicence.com/

[3] - http://www.televisionlicence.info/tvl/who

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