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Dear brilliant students: Please consider not doing a PhD.

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Re: Dear brilliant students: Please consider not doing a PhD.

#71
post #4

Boy, all the articles about Ph.D.'s on HN are so negative. I had a great time getting mine. I got a Ph.D. in Chemical Engineering from Carnegie Mellon. I guess it must depend a lot on the subject you're studying. We mostly did classes for the first two years. We got an adviser in the second year, and gradually ramped up the research. I finished in 4 years and 3 months. Pretty much everyone in the program would finish…

I think it is highly dependent on field. My field, biology, is basically like flipping a coin. Do you graduate in five years or nine? Will you come out with a golden road to tenure or a life destined to work sad, lonely, post-docs? Flip that coin! No matter how smart you are, the Gods of Biology are fickle. You may end up with a shitty protein, an assay that only works when the moon is aligned with Venus or cells tha…

I did my PhD in ECE specifically computer vision and had a decent time, but pretty much everyone I encountered during their PhD in biology had some horror story to tell.

Re: Dear brilliant students: Please consider not doing a PhD.

#72
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some Professors just keep shooting down their students' ideas, rather than actually teaching or guiding them. This is what they are supposed to do. You can't be taught or guided on how to PhD-level research; like writing, it is more about trying and being critiqued on your outputs for N years straight. If you don't like being critiqued, don't do a PhD. If you think your ideas are good, persist with them even though…

I hope you never have any students, because it sounds like the abused will become the abuser.

WTF!?

Critique is a common learning method in many other fields, like art, music, design, journalism, and politics. Hand feeding and teaching is fine a dandy at the beginner undergrad level, but you reach a point quickly where you have to rely more on yourself to become better. Criticism starts out from your teachers and peers, and eventually you learn how to be self critical on your own.

But you are right, this isn't for most people; PhDs aren't for everyone.

Re: Dear brilliant students: Please consider not doing a PhD.

#73
I am approaching my final semester as a CS undergraduate and, to be totally honest, I am more than a little nervous about my decision to go down the PhD route. I've got a decent application, so I am less worried about getting into a program and more worried about life in it. I appreciate the experiences others have shared here, and I'd like to relate some of my thoughts and concerns because am curious to know if (how) I'm being naive. So, while my post here is mostly aimed at veterans who might dispel any illusions I hold, I would value any input.

I've applied to CS PhD programs and intend to do research in AI/Machine Learning. I am fascinated with the field, and though I have only a little undergrad experience with it, I've loved it all so far.

One of my main goals in getting a PhD is to improve my future career prospects, whether in academia or industry. I am ambivalent about going into academia for a post-doc career, as I think a startup or even industry would make better fits for me personally. I've noticed most industry jobs I'm interested in require graduate education, and I expect the PhD will likely over-qualify me for most startups. But more than all that, I want to make use of my mind (I know, I know: its that tired cliche about changing the world...) Though I enjoy coding, and I excel in my classwork and projects, I'm not a programming genius (which, perhaps regrettably, is what some people seem to expect from a top CS undergrad). I have had a taste of what it is like being a professional software developer, which is what my friends are prepping to do straight out of college, and I know it is not for me.

One qualm I have is that, as an undergraduate, I've had only one internship relevant to AI/ML and only a taste of research (no publications, some lab work), so the whole funding->research->publish sequence is still a little unclear to me (although reading blogs like Philip Guo's helped demystify the whole graduate experience). Another worry is that I do not want to put my life on hold. I can tolerate living on little funds, but I can't accept being a slave to my research: I want to have relationships and interests outside of the lab. To this end, I plan to keep my act together, work smart and effectively, and finish my PhD on time.

Does this seem like an unreasonable plan? Will I be facing jobless doldrums by having a PhD? What more can I do to be prepared for graduate school? Is there anything major I'm overlooking?

Also, thanks to HN in general for contributing - this has been a great thread.

EDIT: I neglected to mention I'm in the US.

Re: Dear brilliant students: Please consider not doing a PhD.

#74
post #44

Here's a related but off-topic question: How does one earn a PhD in the US while working a full-time job to support a family, including a wife, children, and a home?

With great difficulty !

Do you really need the extra stress? Doing a PhD is really a full-time undertaking, as in 40+ hours / week diligent work. Doing it part-time still requires 20+ hours of quality time to be successful.

Re: Dear brilliant students: Please consider not doing a PhD.

#75
post #44

Here's a related but off-topic question: How does one earn a PhD in the US while working a full-time job to support a family, including a wife, children, and a home?

You don't. A PhD is a full-time job, a 40-60 hour/week one.

I did the part-time Master's. That was a huge mistake. You will not get the education, the time to research, the networking, the collaboration, or the presence to do the job right.

A PhD done wrong is a waste of your time and the university's time.

Re: Dear brilliant students: Please consider not doing a PhD.

#76
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often, you don't. When I applied to graduate school I intended to keep my full time "real pay" job. My PhD program only accepted students who would take a graduate student stipend and commit full time to the "program." After going through it, I understand why they want that commitment and I would not recommend anyone try to get a PhD in the spare time.

That's a shame. So, basically, choosing to start a family first keeps you out of academia forever by design .

Nah. You can have a family and do a PhD. Lots of people do. You just can't have a fulltime job and do a decent PhD.

You should be able to wangle some kind of funding and get by OK if your spouse can work (& a few other conditions such as no financial catastrophe).

Re: Dear brilliant students: Please consider not doing a PhD.

#79
post #58
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a shame. So, basically, choosing to start a family first keeps you out of academia forever by design .

I think hardhead might have just been referring to keeping a "full time job" which is impossible in many of the STEM PhD programs in the US. A lab-mate of mine has a child, and I know a few others in my program that have children as well. Almost all STEM PhD programs offer stipends for TAs and/or RAs, so you might get on the order of 20K/year to be a student. That being said, there are no shortage of people claiming…

Quanics is correct. I would never recommend paying your own way at a graduate program--go where you are funded. A graduate stipend will net to about $20k/year (there are some amazing fellowships that will fund $50k+ but they are very, very competitive). In a "real job" you'll often be making much more than $20k, as I was when I was a higher ed IT professional (and could have qualified for free tuition as an institutional employee). PhD programs are rated by several factors including graduation rate and time to completion. It is obvious to me now that the people who are choosing the students to fill the very limited number of graduate student seats in any given year will choose those who are committing to work full time on graduating.

Many people do complain about academia being hostile to family life (see http://100rsns.blogspot.com/2010/09/15-marriage-and-family-u... for a particularly negative view). However, many of my colleagues had children during graduate school. They took time off classes but then used their "down time" (e.g. child napping) to focus on writing and came out ahead. I got married immediately before entering grad school and had my first child as I was writing my dissertation. The timing worked really well for me. I was lucky that my wife could support me through graduate school (on top of my stipend).

Re: Dear brilliant students: Please consider not doing a PhD.

#80
post #76
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a shame. So, basically, choosing to start a family first keeps you out of academia forever by design .

Nah. You can have a family and do a PhD. Lots of people do. You just can't have a fulltime job and do a decent PhD. You should be able to wangle some kind of funding and get by OK if your spouse can work (& a few other conditions such as no financial catastrophe).

my father worked full time while receiving his phd in the professional field he was employed in. he has had a very successful academic career. his dissertation was no joke and he has advanced much further than others from more prestigious universities.

i don't understand this mindset and the fact it exists is why i would never go back for a phd (pure math phd drop out). this is why so much research ends up being inapplicable garbage that doesn't advance a profession so much as hit the current vogue in academics. half the shit i saw pushed the current boundaries of human knowledge further away from anything applicable, interesting, or worth spending 6 years of your life on.

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