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Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

joshbassett.info

61–70 of 118 posts

Re: Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

#61
Haskel/Scala has Learn You a Haskell/Scala for Great Good! and Lisp has The Land of Lisp.

Are there any _why-esque guides to Clojure and FP in general like these other languages have? I'm unaware of any and consider it surprising given the Clojure communities passion.

Re: Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a zip file following Java convention that can be dropped in any Java web application server (like Apache Tomcat). Basically a lot of sites you go to have been deployed by dropping a .war file in a Java web application server. That technologically powers a gigantic part of the Internet (just look at SO or Quora or expert exchange or any TIOOBE index or any Java job offer: Java webapps are pretty much powering the…

Are you suggesting that SO - StackOverflow.com - runs on Java?

Having no idea what the software stack is, and only basing a guess on having read plenty of Joel's musings, I'm guessing a Microsoft technology. I'm sure someone has the goods, or Google could probably answer.

Re: Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

#63
post #18
post #9

I learned F# as this guy learned Scala. I too dived into Haskell after a while and learnt a lot of new things. Having learned some great functional tips, I came back to my regular C#/Ruby and applying LINQ and Ruby's blocks seemed more natural to me. However, monads, monoids, functors still don't matter when you switch over. I've used Yesod to write a small app. A typical form in Yesod (for model binding) has this si…

Why not define a type alias? type AppForm a = Html -> MForm Blog Blog (FormResult a, Widget) And then you get: newPostForm :: AppForm (Text, Text, Text)

The real fun with type aliases is that GHC rarely uses them in error messages. So you get about 20 lines of type vomit whenever something refuses to compile and then you get to try to piece it back together into a level of abstraction that humans can handle.

Re: Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

#64
post #9

I learned F# as this guy learned Scala. I too dived into Haskell after a while and learnt a lot of new things. Having learned some great functional tips, I came back to my regular C#/Ruby and applying LINQ and Ruby's blocks seemed more natural to me. However, monads, monoids, functors still don't matter when you switch over. I've used Yesod to write a small app. A typical form in Yesod (for model binding) has this si…

>LINQ ... However, monads, monoids, functors still don't matter when you switch over.

Funny that you say that; LINQ is actually implemented using monads.

Re: Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a zip file following Java convention that can be dropped in any Java web application server (like Apache Tomcat). Basically a lot of sites you go to have been deployed by dropping a .war file in a Java web application server. That technologically powers a gigantic part of the Internet (just look at SO or Quora or expert exchange or any TIOOBE index or any Java job offer: Java webapps are pretty much powering the…

Are you suggesting that SO - StackOverflow.com - runs on Java?

It's an ASP.net MVC app, if I recall correctly. The .NET world has a parallel mechanism to .war deployment, though.

Re: Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

#66

Anybody here has developed and deployed a Scala-based or/and Haskell-based project for production? I mean systems for business purpose where rubber meets the road with timeline to hit and budget to meet. Far too often the stories are shared by people who learned a new language for 3 months and implemented a pet system where only a few real users. Definitely I respect their zeal and curiosity, but I am more interested…

I know of a few strong mostly Haskell places in NYC alone. Likewise I'm actually bootstrapping a biz where I've spent most of the past year building the tech where some of the things I'm doing are only tractable to build by using Haskell.

> I know of a few strong mostly Haskell places in NYC alone.

Hedge funds? Or something else?

Re: Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

#67
post #11

For personal projects or for learning the principles of FP, there is nothing wrong with using Haskell. From personal experience however, I will not be using Haskell again for a larger professional project, because our team ran into too many time consuming issues and problems that have been solved successfully in other languages/environments (especially the JVM) like dependency management or reasoning over runtime cha…

I had the exact opposite experience. We switched from scala to haskell and it has been a huge relief. I spend no more time dealing with dependencies in haskell than I did in scala, and our team contains precisely zero people with any post-secondary education (I didn't even finish high school in fact). The myth that you need "a team of PhDs" is so bizarre and so far from reality that I don't understand how anyone who has taken any time to actually try haskell could repeat it.

Re: Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

#68
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two years ago the situation was far worse, dependency-hell-wise. About hooking up the process for some profiling information, take a look at: http://ocharles.org.uk/blog/posts/2012-12-11-24-day-of-hacka...

It's still bad and cabal is still bad. I was in #haskell on IRC not too long ago and they couldn't even figure out why a haskell-platform install couldn't upgrade its own cabal with no other packages installed. Your propagandizing is either based on very insulated anecdote or you're being disingenuous for the sake of promoting your favorite language. The salesmanship does not help Haskell and sets expectations poorly…

>It's still bad and cabal is still bad.

No, it isn't. You have the exact same problems with CPAN and everyone and even the most devoted perl-haters will admit "perl is a terrible language, but CPAN is amazing". You run into the exact same problems with every other language, the only difference being dynamic languages tend to be lazy about correctly managing version numbers, so you get "installs properly but completely breaks my app" instead of "tells you it can't install because of a version conflict".

>I was in #haskell on IRC not too long ago and they couldn't even figure out why a haskell-platform install couldn't upgrade its own cabal with no other packages installed.

Well obviously, since it does in fact work just fine, it is quite difficult to figure out what weirdness that individual did to create his problem.

Re: Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

#69
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not define a type alias? type AppForm a = Html -> MForm Blog Blog (FormResult a, Widget) And then you get: newPostForm :: AppForm (Text, Text, Text)

The real fun with type aliases is that GHC rarely uses them in error messages. So you get about 20 lines of type vomit whenever something refuses to compile and then you get to try to piece it back together into a level of abstraction that humans can handle.

Well, it isn't the case here, is it?

Re: Hello Haskell, Goodbye Scala

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a zip file following Java convention that can be dropped in any Java web application server (like Apache Tomcat). Basically a lot of sites you go to have been deployed by dropping a .war file in a Java web application server. That technologically powers a gigantic part of the Internet (just look at SO or Quora or expert exchange or any TIOOBE index or any Java job offer: Java webapps are pretty much powering the…

Are you suggesting that SO - StackOverflow.com - runs on Java?

I think he is suggesting that the number of java related questions on those sites indicates the language is widely used. Neither SO or quora run on java.
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