Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here • Hacker News Board

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#101

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 7:52 AM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #95

biot wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how is a response of "That's pretty good for a 14 year old" of any help? If the critique should not take into account the age of the creator, then why should the request for the critique mention it? Shouldn't everyone who shows initiative and a willingness to learn be encouraged through respectful and civil feedback, regardless of whether they're 14 or 40?

Just like novelists, there probably aren't any great fourteen year old developers. Just some are are less bad than others. And some who have a higher ceiling when it comes to developing their talent. Any critic worth a listen can tailor their message to their audience. Some messages which make sense for a fourteen year old boy don't for a forty-four year man - e.g. "stay in school." Children are not miniature adults.

> there probably aren't any great fourteen year old developers.

We have at least one counter example here on HN.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#102

Post by aw3c2 » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 8:36 AM UTC

kerno wrote: post #91

mhurron wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First: Praise given always is meaningless. Second: Criticism is not always 'angry' Third: Consider dealing with the crass criticism as a life lesson. Fourth: Mindless praise is not going to help you grow Fifth: How you present something will often determine the type of response you get. You are going to leave kindergarten some day, the world isn't all gold stars. You are going to have to deal with people giving a cri…

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "Hey, that's a nice attempt. You can do better next time by looking at this, or this, and did you consider that". Suddenly you've taught someone something, and you didn't have to bend your principles all out of shape giving meaningless praise. No-one is expecting you to give out gold stars.

at the same time this that is a great example of good criticism.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#103

Post by luisivan » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 8:47 AM UTC

I can't agree more.

I started my first project, Asturix, a Linux distribution, at age 12. I have found all kind of complications, most of them related with being young.

I live in Spain, where there are a lot of prejudices against youth. Also, the educational system here doesn't empower any "21 century" value such as creativity or inspiration. Fortunately, the situation is changing thanks to the media and other young entrepreneurs and I are starting to be famous in Spain.

On the other hand, working and studying in Spain at the same time is really, really, really hard. Oh, and we have a youth unemployment rate of 54%.

Right now I'm 17 and have founded a couple companies, what has been really hard due to legal issues - creating a company in Spain being underage is practically illegal. I have also started an incubator for hackers from 12 to 18 so they can create their projects in a easier way.

This is a beautiful age for discovering your passion, but if people screw you out it can be a difficult one.

The talent is there, but we have to let it grow.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#104

Post by dragos2 » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 9:20 AM UTC

I read a couple of days ago a blog post written by a 17 years old in which he was stating a rather interesting fact. He was saying he prefers to omit mentioning his age on forums and discussion boards (such as HN) because he wants to be critiqued for his work regardless of his age.

I found that to be incredibly accurate. Most of the kids want to just show-off their projects, but there are still a lot of them who want genuine critique.

So, if you want to get real opinions about your project and you post on HN or reddit, you should put on your big boy pants.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#105

Post by dfabulich » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 9:42 AM UTC

goostavos wrote: post #76

vishnumenon wrote: post #35

As the author of the "ugly and short-sighted essay" in question, I want to just mention that I meant no hard feelings to anyone of any age, and tried hard to critique the behavior, not the person, Sorry if it came across as ugly. However, I stand by my opinion. I believe that there are plenty of other places these teens can go for blanket approval and yes-men, such as friends and family. HN is, to me, reserved for un…

Would you post the link here? I would be interesting in reading your specific arguments. The only issue I really take with the "I'm 14 and check out my first [x]," is that some of them feel a little suspect. Hell, I stumbled upon one of the "I'm 15 and.." guys astroturfing his thread. He neglected to change accounts, and so he gave a glowing review about how great the game was, and how awesome the it is that he's doi…

It's http://vishnumenon.com/2013/01/21/im-35-months-old-and-i-mad...

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#106

Post by regularfry » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 9:51 AM UTC

niggler wrote: post #96

jtheory wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a nasty illogic to this sequence, but I see it all the time. A. "The world isn't all gold stars" (a.k.a. "it's a dog-eat-dog world out there", or "there are a lot of hardasses out there", etc.), THEREFORE B. I'm personally not going to pull any punches for this naive/hopeful/idealistic/etc. young person. This isn't logic; it's a weak rationalization for being an asshole, because there's a certain pleasure to…

I've seen the following happen way too often: from a young age, kids are told they are child prodigies and maintain top status in high school. Then they enter college and meet people who are more intelligent or proficient and can't seem to accept the reality of the situation. As an example, there was one section of organic chemistry for freshmen, and to get into that class you had to have a 5 in AP chem and pass two…

The answer to this isn't to stop praising kids. It's to stop praising them in the wrong way. Kids praised for results turn out like you say. Kids praised for effort have far better outcomes.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#107

Post by caw » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 12:33 PM UTC

niggler wrote: post #96

jtheory wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a nasty illogic to this sequence, but I see it all the time. A. "The world isn't all gold stars" (a.k.a. "it's a dog-eat-dog world out there", or "there are a lot of hardasses out there", etc.), THEREFORE B. I'm personally not going to pull any punches for this naive/hopeful/idealistic/etc. young person. This isn't logic; it's a weak rationalization for being an asshole, because there's a certain pleasure to…

I've seen the following happen way too often: from a young age, kids are told they are child prodigies and maintain top status in high school. Then they enter college and meet people who are more intelligent or proficient and can't seem to accept the reality of the situation. As an example, there was one section of organic chemistry for freshmen, and to get into that class you had to have a 5 in AP chem and pass two…

Relevant to the discussion at hand: http://thisisindexed.com/2012/12/somebody-teach-this-kid-to-...

I think the age matters to give appropriate advice and direction. With the case of the 14 year old, they don't have the life experiences to be able to get certain analogies, and they have a different set of opportunities available to them. At 14, you can prep differently, you can go to college for computer science. For the 40 year old weekend hobbiest, going back to college is generally not an option, so the path they have to take to get proficient is definitely different than the options the 14 year old has.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#108

Post by ScottWhigham » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 1:08 PM UTC

BlackJack wrote: post #88

ScottWhigham wrote: post #62

Getting young people into science and technology is the single greatest professional duty any technologist has. What? I don't understand this at all. The "single greatest professional duty any technologist" has is unique to that "technologist". If, for example, I'm a 23yo kid who just graduated uni and in my first job, do you think for a second that I give a #$(* about "getting young people into science and technolog…

I'm a 19 year old and when I got into college I remember thinking that I would love to interview prospective students after I graduated. Maybe you don't care about mentoring young people, but there are certainly many, many people who care a lot about that.

Maybe you don't care about mentoring young people

I carefully crafted my reply and for you to mistakenly read that into it made me go back and re-read my reply. I don't see where you get that I say that I "don't care about mentoring young people". Please take the time to point out where/what part I seem to imply that I don't care about mentoring young people. Actually, hell, I'll make it easier for you: point out where I state my opinion about what I prefer at all.

Please - before you misquote, misunderstand, and then slag someone, take the time to re-read what they've written. Maybe it's your reading comprehension that was the problem rather than their post.

And besides, "there are certainly many, many people who care a lot about" (insert anything ever here). There always has been and always will be. Stating the obvious doesn't really help here.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#109

Post by BlackJack » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 2:39 PM UTC

ScottWhigham wrote: post #108

BlackJack wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a 19 year old and when I got into college I remember thinking that I would love to interview prospective students after I graduated. Maybe you don't care about mentoring young people, but there are certainly many, many people who care a lot about that.

Maybe you don't care about mentoring young people I carefully crafted my reply and for you to mistakenly read that into it made me go back and re-read my reply. I don't see where you get that I say that I "don't care about mentoring young people". Please take the time to point out where/what part I seem to imply that I don't care about mentoring young people. Actually, hell, I'll make it easier for you: point out whe…

The part that got me to think that was when you said:

> I don't care one whit about 'getting young people into science and technology

Sorry if I misunderstood, and maybe we're just arguing between "mentoring" and "getting young people into tech," but I was referring to your sentiment as opposed to some exact wording.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#110

Post by goostavos » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 4:18 PM UTC

dfabulich wrote: post #105

goostavos wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you post the link here? I would be interesting in reading your specific arguments. The only issue I really take with the "I'm 14 and check out my first [x]," is that some of them feel a little suspect. Hell, I stumbled upon one of the "I'm 15 and.." guys astroturfing his thread. He neglected to change accounts, and so he gave a glowing review about how great the game was, and how awesome the it is that he's doi…

It's http://vishnumenon.com/2013/01/21/im-35-months-old-and-i-mad...

Thanks for the link! After reading through it, I don't feel there was anything "ugly and short-sighted" about it. OP was being way over dramatic.

On a tech centered website such as Hacker News, it seems a perfectly reasonable position to ask someone not to rely on an emotional manipulation to get page views.