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Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself

#51

Post by olalonde »

im3w1l wrote: post #38
graue wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a problem with this theory: it hypothesizes a benefit to a group , but no benefit to the individual who commits suicide. Individuals who do not have the gene(s) that predispose toward committing suicide would therefore be more fit than individuals who do, and these gene(s) would never become widespread. I believe this was one of the main points of Dawkins' The Selfish Gene : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The…

Well if you sacrifice to save a group that also has the gene (e.g. extended family / tribe) it would work out.

If there exists such a thing as group selection. This is not entirely clear and many biologists remain unconvinced about that theory (Richard Dawkins most notably).

Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself

#52

Post by m22 »

rdtsc wrote: post #45
kstenerud wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who has been suicidal and very nearly succeeded had someone not pulled me down, this article pretty much nails it. The strange part is, I can kind of get into my past self's head and replay all of my reasons, but from my current perspective they seem corrupted and perverse. I know that I was trying to escape from my own twisted feelings of guilt, but the whole episode seems almost surreal now; me…

> but from my current perspective they seem corrupted and perverse. Thank you for sharing. I was wondering would it make a difference at all if someone else, (a friend, therapist, partner) would say how the current perspective is corrupted or warped. Would that make a difference? Would it help in that situation? If not, what does help, if anything to get out of that mode?

I think it would be more helpful to have the - relatively - insignificant problems remedied one-by-one, rather than just talking.

Being deeply depressed is like having a burden/cloud over your head, you can't think straight because all those issues are just sitting there in the background, blocking normal thoughts.

Once you come out of it, you don't really recognize the depressed individual that was running on auto pilot. That's my take on it anyway.

Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself

#53

Post by pprd »

rdtsc wrote: post #45
kstenerud wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who has been suicidal and very nearly succeeded had someone not pulled me down, this article pretty much nails it. The strange part is, I can kind of get into my past self's head and replay all of my reasons, but from my current perspective they seem corrupted and perverse. I know that I was trying to escape from my own twisted feelings of guilt, but the whole episode seems almost surreal now; me…

> but from my current perspective they seem corrupted and perverse. Thank you for sharing. I was wondering would it make a difference at all if someone else, (a friend, therapist, partner) would say how the current perspective is corrupted or warped. Would that make a difference? Would it help in that situation? If not, what does help, if anything to get out of that mode?

I have "pain is temporary" tattooed on my inner thigh to serve exactly this purpose. Unfortunately, when you're depressed the tattoo seems stupid.

PS: This might be because it's a stupid tattoo to begin with.

Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself

#54

Post by kstenerud »

rdtsc wrote: post #45
kstenerud wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who has been suicidal and very nearly succeeded had someone not pulled me down, this article pretty much nails it. The strange part is, I can kind of get into my past self's head and replay all of my reasons, but from my current perspective they seem corrupted and perverse. I know that I was trying to escape from my own twisted feelings of guilt, but the whole episode seems almost surreal now; me…

> but from my current perspective they seem corrupted and perverse. Thank you for sharing. I was wondering would it make a difference at all if someone else, (a friend, therapist, partner) would say how the current perspective is corrupted or warped. Would that make a difference? Would it help in that situation? If not, what does help, if anything to get out of that mode?

I've thought about this a lot, but I haven't found any sure-fire way to pierce through the depressed mentality.

In the depressed mentality, you are 100% sure of your convictions. That's why you know that life isn't worth living. Anyone telling you things counter to your ideas is either lying or deluded or just plain naive. SSRIs are nothing more than "happy pills" that cloud your judgment and turn you into a stranger to yourself; basically lies in pill form.

Depression in full flower is an air-tight system that allows nothing contrary in, roughly equivalent to being in a cult, so cracking through the armor is difficult, indeed! The only way I can think of that could work (other than the person figuring it out for themselves) is to (a) be known and respected by them, (b) have experience with severe depression yourself so that they know you've been there, and (c) keep gently pushing them forward after the initial bluntness. Just getting a depressed person to see a shrink would be a huge accomplishment. Getting them to stay on SSRIs is another huge accomplishment (I haven't helped anyone with the first, but I have kept a friend going with the second).

For me personally, I keep mental snapshots of my baseline emotional state so that I have something to compare against. It's a kind of early warning system for when I'm falling so I can catch myself. Just realizing that my current sadness is of a purely chemical cause helps me get out of it sooner (within hours rather than days or even weeks). There are, of course, times of honest, real sadness, like anyone else gets, but they have a different feel. I can't explain the difference, but I can recognize it.

Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself

#55

Post by jjb123 »

As someone that has had a sibling take her own life, and another that has had suicidal thoughts frequently, this article was extremely helpful in seeing the cognitive layers beyond the emotional layers. Pretty eye-opening. I wonder if the cognitive destruction would prevent a person from even realizing they're experiencing cognitive destruction (eg, after reading an article like this)?

Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself

#56

Post by juanbyrge »

hudell wrote: post #29

I've tried to kill myself twice when I was a teenage. It was really silly. The first time I was in my bed, trying to sleep, when I tought : "Why don't I kill myself?" I don't remember what kind of problems I had at the time. I was 15 and that was the best year of my life up to that point (ages 10 to 14 really sucked and I would understand if it had happened at that time). I didn't do anything special, just covered my…

You've never had real depression or suicidal thoughts. Consider yourself lucky.

Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself

#57

Post by juanbyrge »

benched wrote: post #43
drostie wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not the person you replied to, just another sufferer. So, for me, depression feels very similar to what both darius and the original article were saying. It's like an erupting storm. It starts with something small -- some tiny failure which a normal person might say "okay, no biggie, I can deal with that." My problem was the multiplication. We have associative memories, and I as a depressed person immediately as…

Wow, these descriptions reflect my own experience exactly. The small failures that snowballed and became patterns. I had been working at a large software company for several years. I was in kind of an oddball group, doing miscellaneous web development. For the most part, it was fun. The team became like a family for a time. The constant re-orgs were stressful, though. That was like having to re-interview for my own j…

Have you seen a therapist for cognitive behavior therapy? I could see that being effective.

Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself

#58

Post by smosher »

orionblastar wrote: post #44
DigitalTurk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orion Blaster! I don't want to reveal my K5 nick but I'm happy you're still around. :)

Thanks you must be one of the few K5 users who like me alive. Most told me to "kill yourself" when I posted a diary. I think it started a K5 trend to post "kill yourself" after a Blastar-like diary. I am learning how to program all over again. I started with ANSI C and GCC and worked up to C++ with G++ in Unbuntu. Just small programs I'll move on to bigger stuff later. Just hope I don't end up like MDC, I hear he's b…

Small world. I remember quitting K5 after it filled up with people I couldn't call friends.

Take care.

Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself

#59

Post by acid_andy »

benched wrote: post #43
drostie wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not the person you replied to, just another sufferer. So, for me, depression feels very similar to what both darius and the original article were saying. It's like an erupting storm. It starts with something small -- some tiny failure which a normal person might say "okay, no biggie, I can deal with that." My problem was the multiplication. We have associative memories, and I as a depressed person immediately as…

Wow, these descriptions reflect my own experience exactly. The small failures that snowballed and became patterns. I had been working at a large software company for several years. I was in kind of an oddball group, doing miscellaneous web development. For the most part, it was fun. The team became like a family for a time. The constant re-orgs were stressful, though. That was like having to re-interview for my own j…

How about coding a very small mobile phone game? Do it for fun, not for profit but if you keep the content simple enough, you might just finish it. Even if you don't, it's a good way to fill in some of the time. It's just forcing yourself to do a little bit every week that's the hard part.
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