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Anti-Apple Anger

marco.org

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Re: Anti-Apple Anger

#41

Post by oz »

>"Our technology choices reflect our values. People willing to yield some control to Apple for their needs are more likely to enjoy the benefits that Apple’s products bring by exerting that control. But people who don’t like being told what to do — people who believe they know what’s best for them, want full control over everything, and are willing to accept the resulting responsibilities — will be more comfortable with the alternatives."

This. A thousand times this.

Most people who know me consider me a rational guy. I'm the type that reads LessWrong, understands cognitive biases and knows who Kahneman & Tversky are.

But I find myself with a deep...dislike of Apple. I fully admit that their products are superb. I admire, and respect the fanaticism and detail that goes into their products. As someone who loves money, I respect a company that rose from the ashes to having 100+ billion dollars in the bank.

But the notion that some guy deep in the bowels of Cupertino knows what I want more than I do makes me recoil violently. I think it's the libertarian in me. I have an inherent distrust of, and contempt for institutions, particularly when they want to decide what's 'right' for me. And the, dare I say cultish (ate least to me) behaviour of many Macolytes only makes me more wary. It's like the recent article proclaiming Apples 'genius' in acquiring Bill Nguyen's team after the Color acquisition. It reminds me of the North Korea articles I've been reading today.

Note that you'll never see any posts on HN from me engaging in any flamewars about Apple, because as an individualist, I believe that my preferences are exactly that: my preferences. Others are allowed to have theirs. I do find the sycophancy by the usual suspects distasteful, though.

Kudos to Marco for a very insightful piece.

Re: Anti-Apple Anger

#42

Post by brudgers »

Much of the reaction to Apple can be attributed to the culture of contempt Apple fosters among its customers and communicated through its corporate actions. People respond negatively to being held in contempt. Film at 11.

From, "They have no taste" embodied in "I'm a Mac" to lawsuits against...well name a competitor they haven't sued...Apple has encouraged the disparagement of users of competing products. "Blue Screen" is most frequently used by Apple customers on the internet.

(hyperbole)

People get angry over Apple for the same reasons they get angry at Fox News - intellectual dishonesty for the sake of ideology. Only Gruber could attribute the rise of flat design aesthetics to some app few people own while ignoring Metro. PG accuses Microsoft of malfeasance in his essays on the Good.

It's never enough to love Apple. That love requires someone else be put down.

(/hyperbole)

Re: Anti-Apple Anger

#43

Post by dvhh »

CR45H wrote: post #20

"But I never see Microsoft fans attacking Android fans, or vice versa. And the rise of anti-Apple anger has risen dramatically as Apple has been so successful in recent years." Seriously? Is he completely blind. The amount anger aimed at Google/Android from the Microsoft camp over the past year has been deafening. For me it's the other way around. I no longer see Microsoft fans attacking Apple (like they used to). No…

He is an primarily an Apple user after all and bound to read more Apple oriented news. I don't think he would read much news about the new blackberry or even get a look at the comments.

Re: Anti-Apple Anger

#44

Post by kmfrk »

astrodust wrote: post #31
thechut wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely correct. In fact, it is this (the elitism), that makes me hate Apple and their products more than any lack of feature in iOS ever could.

The problem is not elitism , but that there is virtually only one "elite" brand and that is Apple. Sony at least gets points for trying. Everyone else is just flailing. This is an anomaly in any other industry, and many industries are the polar opposite. Can you imagine a world where there are hundreds of varieties of wine, but only several that are any good? Where you can pick between dozens of $2 bottles and severa…

I think the problem is not that there is an "elite" brand and "the other one"; the problem is that when you are basically dealing with a two-party competition, especially in politics, people become incredibly entrenched, be it Windows vs. Mac, PlayStation vs. Xbox, Republicans vs. Democrats, and so on and so forth.

It encourages a narrative of a hero and a villain, a protagonist and antagonist, right and wrong, good and bad.

Re: Anti-Apple Anger

#45

Post by frozenport »

Its important to note that Apple, being a hardware+software, solution receives hate from 2 sides.

Some people don't like OS X

Some people don't like paying 2x for the same hardware

I suspect that this alone contributes to a 2x increase in vitriol.

Re: Anti-Apple Anger

#46

Post by lukeman »

thechut wrote: post #26
jmduke wrote: post #2

A lot of the elitism (or at least what I consider elitism) from Gruber, Arment, Siegler et all is incredibly off-putting to me -- and I own a MacBook Air, iPad, and iPhone. That being said, I think this is an incredibly well-reasoned and well-crafted explanation of the massive chasm between Apple 'fanboys' and Apple 'haters' -- and explains to me why, as a current zealot of the iOS ecosystem, I nonetheless find so mu…

You are absolutely correct. In fact, it is this (the elitism), that makes me hate Apple and their products more than any lack of feature in iOS ever could.

Creating stereotypes of users is not a valid excuse to hate a company and its products. One could find any number of asswipes under any banner to justify this type of silly tribalism.

Re: Anti-Apple Anger

#47

Post by rayiner »

CrazedGeek wrote: post #37
yareally wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average Android user I would be skeptical about, but ones that frequent the forums generally know their own devices fairly well (many are former iPhone owners at some point or switch back and forth). However, I would say that many of them also take cheapshots at Apple to defend their own positions better by claiming things that are absolutely not true (e.g. Android gets similar battery life with the same battery capa…

Small point: the "a 5+ inch phone is easy to hold" thing can absolutely be true. I haven't tried a Note 2, but I had a Note 1 for a little while and it wasn't hard to hold at all.

How tall are you?

Re: Anti-Apple Anger

#48

Post by redler »

rwallace wrote: post #34

The explanation for anti-Apple anger is far simpler, and doesn't need a reference to the actual products at all. Anger comes from insecurity. People get angry when they feel threatened. People feel threats come from the top dog (this assessment is usually not very accurate, but it is human psychology). People who feel (whether rightly or wrongly) that their side is securely on top, don't bother getting angry. Thus, i…

Apple has the interesting distinction of having been gleefully kicked while they were down (nonstandard toy, the "beleaguered" epithet, clone or die, just build Windows boxes, Michael Dell's infamous corporate governance advice) -- and gleefully kicked since they've been up (monopolist, elitist, walled garden, destroyer of choice, market share trumps profit, law of large numbers).

While there's some truth in most of the criticisms, it's also clear that there's just something about Apple: an opinionated company, often and still conflated with the polarizing personality of Steve Jobs. To some their success is inexplicable and galling, to others a thrilling reversal. We love to love and love to hate Apple.

Re: Anti-Apple Anger

#49

Post by snogglethorpe »

doe88 wrote: post #7
bitcartel wrote: post #3

Did a horse with blinkers write the article? > "I’ve noticed a very clear trend among tech sites I read: Android fans are unusually quick to fill the comment box with rage on articles that mention anything positive about Apple or its products. The reverse — Apple fans leaving angry comments on pro-Android articles — is almost completely absent from the sites I’ve seen"

I've observed (non scientifically I concede) the same thing than Marco. Also another thing he wrote I find particularly true is the need for Android users to try to convince others people to switch to Android as if there was no good reason to own an iPhone. That's strange.

I expect it has a lot to do with which blogs/forums you're reading.

In my experience, the number of Apple fanboi comments vastly exceeds the number of Android fanboi comments, pretty much everywhere I've noticed.

Given that the iphone is very, very, popular, especially in English-speaking countries (and I mostly read blogs in English), this isn't entirely surprising: popularity, especially mass-market popularity, almost always comes with an associated fanboi/mouth-breather contingent...

[Actually, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a real Android fanboi; most comments I see criticizing Apple seem to be pretty purely anti-Apple, not pro-Android per-se. AFAICT, Android is thought of as "the practical alternative," and doesn't tend to engender passion (including the sort of degenerate passion fanbois represent) the way Apple does...]

Re: Anti-Apple Anger

#50

Post by martythemaniak »

jmduke wrote: post #2

A lot of the elitism (or at least what I consider elitism) from Gruber, Arment, Siegler et all is incredibly off-putting to me -- and I own a MacBook Air, iPad, and iPhone. That being said, I think this is an incredibly well-reasoned and well-crafted explanation of the massive chasm between Apple 'fanboys' and Apple 'haters' -- and explains to me why, as a current zealot of the iOS ecosystem, I nonetheless find so mu…

>Apple’s products are opinionated. They say, “We know what’s best for you. Here it is. Oh, that thing you want to do? We won’t let you do that because it would suck. Trust us. If you don’t like it, there’s the door.”

Problem is, Apple's acolytes won't leave you alone to go through the door - they'll follow you and keep telling you you're a wrong for wanting something different or thinking different (the irony is always lost). Some of them will even write long and detailed blog posts about how 3.5" is the perfect screen size, and and if you think differently, you're wrong. (http://dcurt.is/3-point-5-inches), or maintain popular blogs which a little more than a large collection of stupid, snide remarks (Gruber).

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