Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here • Hacker News Board

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#71

Post by kevinconroy » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 1:12 AM UTC

mhurron wrote: post #54

kyro wrote: post #46

That blog article was one of the stupidest things I've ever read. I never got the encouragement or support to pursue my hobbies at a young age, whether from parents or friends, and would've killed to have a community like this that could've praised me and pushed me forward. To accuse a kid mentioning the fact that he's 14 in his submission title as being manipulative really reflects on how out of touch you are with t…

We're not these children's daddies though, are we? Did you run up to every adult expecting praise? Did they give it to you? This is a group of, by and large, professionals. They are going to look at it in a critical light. If you want critical feedback, this is the forum to show it to. If you want coddling and nothing but positive reinforcement, stick with your parents, teachers and friends.

That's incredibly short sighted of you. We should be encouraging the next generation to develop this skills in a supportive and constructive way. They're our future employees (and/or bosses).

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#72

Post by joshmlewis » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 1:16 AM UTC

hndude wrote: post #49

joshmlewis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! I've written one blog post about my experience a few months out of high school, and I need to do a follow up with almost two years out now. My new company is launching in March and I'm super excited about it. Hopefully I'll have an even more interesting story to tell after that.

what happened with your first company?

I was a cofounder and we went through an accelerator this past summer. I met a lot of people, learned a ton, but in the end I wasn't the right fit with the other cofounders and we were in a very niche space I didn't have a lot of domain knowledge in, so for lack of a better term, we parted ways. There are of course more details but that's the gist. It definitely taught me a few lessons and established relationships that are now funding the new company.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#73

Post by badatmath » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 1:29 AM UTC

Cogito wrote: post #61

Should age be included in a post's title ? In most cases, the age can be disclosed in the comments without losing any information, and in the process removing any 'negative' connotations. I posted something on the thread that started this whole dance a day or so ago, however it probably merits further expansion. Most arguments that are 'pro' age disclosure boil down to "We should treat younger members of the communit…

I for one think that they are "gaming the system," but I don't see that as a bad thing. It's great that these kids are entrepreneurial enough to proactively push their product. It's clearly a very effective way to title a post, and they aren't lying or doing anything unethical, so what's the problem? All I know is, if I was 14, I would definitely post my age, and I sure as hell wouldn't feel guilty about it.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#74

Post by olivier1664 » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 1:31 AM UTC

zmitri wrote: post #70

In a lot of communities, the "this is my first post" is often celebrated. On HN it definitely is not, which is kind of strange. Glad you put this out there danilo.

Maybe a question of size. In a small communities, everybody knows everybody. Here, it is not the case, we do not look the persons, just the result.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#75

Post by ddunkin » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 1:32 AM UTC

rquantz wrote: post #31

ddunkin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law does not apply here and I didn't know we were discussing anything legal. Back to the context here, I am talking about the point of posting an app to HN. The goal is for feedback, if you want clear focused feedback, you need a focused post. The extra detail only bring the entire thread off-topic, as has been proven here multiple times.

But you give a teenage beginner different feedback than a seasoned professional.

This implies that 'not' being a teenager makes you a 'seasoned professional'. What makes you seasoned is experience, a 14 year old can be more experienced in programming than someone who is 50 and just starting out, and is likely able to get more advanced in much less time.

I find the younger ones pick up new ideas faster than some other generations, and can get more 'experience' than I can in a shorter amount of time. This is why I find it hard to want to treat them like kids, they are smart and intelligent, and often faster than me. I have no right to tell them otherwise by playing down to them. The best adults in my life were the ones who treated me as equal and respected me.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#76

Post by goostavos » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 1:41 AM UTC

vishnumenon wrote: post #35

As the author of the "ugly and short-sighted essay" in question, I want to just mention that I meant no hard feelings to anyone of any age, and tried hard to critique the behavior, not the person, Sorry if it came across as ugly. However, I stand by my opinion. I believe that there are plenty of other places these teens can go for blanket approval and yes-men, such as friends and family. HN is, to me, reserved for un…

Would you post the link here? I would be interesting in reading your specific arguments.

The only issue I really take with the "I'm 14 and check out my first [x]," is that some of them feel a little suspect. Hell, I stumbled upon one of the "I'm 15 and.." guys astroturfing his thread. He neglected to change accounts, and so he gave a glowing review about how great the game was, and how awesome the it is that he's doing this at his age... all from the same account he used to post the link. When I pointed this out to him, everything was quickly deleted.

Maybe I'm letting one bad apple spoil everything, but I feel that some percentage of the "I'm young, check out this really mediocre, yet ad supported thing I made" are in fact, just some older guy's weekend passive income experiment.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#77

Post by trishume » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 1:42 AM UTC

I'm 16 and Things I've written have made the front page twice, both times without mentioning my age. As a teenager, it feels really good to make the front page or #1 with no "omg they're young" bonus points.

Granted, it is encouraging to get bonus up votes for being young and achieving something.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#78

Post by Xcelerate » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 1:47 AM UTC

mhurron wrote: post #54

kyro wrote: post #46

That blog article was one of the stupidest things I've ever read. I never got the encouragement or support to pursue my hobbies at a young age, whether from parents or friends, and would've killed to have a community like this that could've praised me and pushed me forward. To accuse a kid mentioning the fact that he's 14 in his submission title as being manipulative really reflects on how out of touch you are with t…

We're not these children's daddies though, are we? Did you run up to every adult expecting praise? Did they give it to you? This is a group of, by and large, professionals. They are going to look at it in a critical light. If you want critical feedback, this is the forum to show it to. If you want coddling and nothing but positive reinforcement, stick with your parents, teachers and friends.

> We're not these children's daddies though, are we? Did you run up to every adult expecting praise? Did they give it to you?

Praise was actually very helpful to me growing up. If I didn't get it, I probably wouldn't have bothered with many of the things that now make my life so interesting and amazing.

> This is a group of, by and large, professionals. They are going to look at it in a critical light. If you want critical feedback, this is the forum to show it to. If you want coddling and nothing but positive reinforcement, stick with your parents, teachers and friends.

So much wrong with this. For one, this is a free online message board where anyone can post. Who cares if there are professionals here or not. Most 14 year olds do not have the same quantity of knowledge or acquired skills that people with more experience have. It's important to evaluate someone's work in an appropriate context. Not to mention the fact that many children are more sensitive to feedback and criticism than adults and negative comments can severely hurt their development / self-esteem.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#79

Post by slyv » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 1:55 AM UTC

biot wrote: post #59

kyro wrote: post #46

That blog article was one of the stupidest things I've ever read. I never got the encouragement or support to pursue my hobbies at a young age, whether from parents or friends, and would've killed to have a community like this that could've praised me and pushed me forward. To accuse a kid mentioning the fact that he's 14 in his submission title as being manipulative really reflects on how out of touch you are with t…

And how is a response of "That's pretty good for a 14 year old" of any help? If the critique should not take into account the age of the creator, then why should the request for the critique mention it? Shouldn't everyone who shows initiative and a willingness to learn be encouraged through respectful and civil feedback, regardless of whether they're 14 or 40?

I think it is the fact that they are "new" at this. For me, if they put "First App" instead of "I am 14" in the title, it would be the same thing. The point is to help encourage new, and usually young, people with programming and technology. The kid is probably just seeking more attention and praise by including the "I am 14 years old" in the header, but underneath, they are still looking for valid critique.

I do not think a 14 year old should be given special privilege over a 40 year old. But, posting "I am 14 years old" is not a bad thing, but a sign of putting one's self out there.

Re: Implore HN: Celebrate and encourage young developers who post here

#80

Post by ddunkin » Tue, Jan 22, 2013, 2:00 AM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #51

ddunkin wrote: post #2

How about we leave age/sex/race out of it all and accept them into the community as peers and equals? I'm all about encouragement, but if we treat them differently because of age, we are just sheltering them from the real world (the Internet hardly counts there, I know). The Internet may not be the safest place to be taught how to accept criticism, but it is a lot easier to take (and more productive) when the attacks…

"Sheltering them from the real world." Indeed. Why don't we just thrust 14 year olds into the worst sort of soul-sucking office job for a year or so. That'll give 'em a good taste of the "real world".

We really should, at least in the US, we generally make our kids choose an education path without having any experience, and before they even know what they want to do with their life. Many end up regretting their college decisions (and left with a huge debt) because they didn't have any idea what they were getting into, and didn't even really like the work in the first place. A little apprenticeship during these years would do wonders.