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What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

news.ycombinator.com

51–60 of 188 posts

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#51
InstallMonetizer can't in good conscience offer Babylon translation satanware.

Or, to put it another way, if they care one ioda about the enduser experience and staying in business, they should not add Babylon software to their bundle.

Babylon is diabolically hard to uninstall. Even after following instructions found on a number of websites, trying different malware removers and doing about:config on Mozilla, it still keeps propagating - EVEN NOW, months later.

I dare someone to install the Babylon software on their main PC and then try to remove it. Go ahead, follow instructions you find on the Internet. Good luck, you'll need it.

It's an ugly, ugly piece of work.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#52
post #23

I dunno, 1. and 2. seem like a cop out to me. When crappy freeware Windows installers provide a checkbox (checked by default, of course) to opt out of Bonzai Buddy or a million Ask.com toolbars or some bullshit malware scanner, they are still shitty and sketchy, and it's disappointing to me to know that YC is now behind a company that makes such software. And saying this crapware is popular does little to assuage my…

Exactly, I always feel these "choices" are like being sold an extended warranty. It's presented as a choice but is "strongly recommended", non tech savvy users are likely not sure what "recommended" means in this context. Does it mean that the software might break my computer without it? Does it stop me getting a virus? Anybody who consciously decides that they want the ask toolbar on their computer can find the stan…

The game is to get those people who aren't tech savvy, and PG knows and actively supports it. There literally is no way to do what IM is trying to do without somehow engaging in questionable behavior (reminiscent of Facebook in many ways)

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#53
post #23

I dunno, 1. and 2. seem like a cop out to me. When crappy freeware Windows installers provide a checkbox (checked by default, of course) to opt out of Bonzai Buddy or a million Ask.com toolbars or some bullshit malware scanner, they are still shitty and sketchy, and it's disappointing to me to know that YC is now behind a company that makes such software. And saying this crapware is popular does little to assuage my…

Exactly, I always feel these "choices" are like being sold an extended warranty. It's presented as a choice but is "strongly recommended", non tech savvy users are likely not sure what "recommended" means in this context. Does it mean that the software might break my computer without it? Does it stop me getting a virus? Anybody who consciously decides that they want the ask toolbar on their computer can find the stan…

It's worse than that, actually. Experienced computer users interact with a computer in a completely different way from inexperienced ones; at some point, experienced users develop the ability to do some kind of fast cognitive relevance filter on the screen, so they know which UI elements they can interact with, which ones might be important, which ones aren't, and so on.

Less experienced users can't do that -- they have to read every single word on the screen and make a decision about it. They mitigate this by memorizing specific actions. i.e., "to send an email, first I click in this area, then I click on the blue thing, then I click in that area..." (which is why constantly changing UI is such a problem for them, btw).

So what do they do with installers like this one? They just click "Next" with all the defaults on. The text on a screen like this is no different to them than the text of the EULA that none of us read.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#54
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, transmitting MAC addresses and IP addresses in the clear really isn't anything to write home about -- that's how all TCP/IP packets are transmitted over ethernet, after all. The real question is what they do with that data on the server side. If they so desire, they could change that behavior far more easily, and retroactively apply that transform to all the data they've retained.

Not exactly, the MAC address (which is a far stronger unique identifier than an IP address) will usually only survive the first hop in an IP transmission.

Not even 'usually', it doesn't exit your LAN at all, once it hits your router, it is stripped and your data is packed with a different MAC address on the WAN (or any other layer 2 identifier depending on your connection), same for each hop after that.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#55
post #43

Some of you guys are being ignorant, and too much time on your hands. What IM is doing seems legit from all the information here. It's giving devs some opportunity to make a living. If you don't like the wares don't install it. Simple. If you were seriously concerned about internet privacy you'd be discussing in depth Google, Microsoft, etc.. policies which affect virtually all inet users and not some small operation…

> It's giving devs some opportunity to make a living.

So does writing IT software for the Mafia.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#57
You can stomp on the grey areas all you want on individual points, but you have to really look at the whole picture.

What is the end result of the software they produce? Without marketing buzzwords thrown in to mask the true intentions?

To bank on ignorant users and to leverage that ignorance to increase revenue.

Same people who do the AV browser pop-ups designed to convince your grandma that 'your computer is infected', they are using the same tactics with a different costume. I actually spoke with a spammer last year (I'm sorry 'content distribution network' as they called themselves) and the double-speak was just infuriating, that was all I could think about when reading this.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#58
post #13

These guys have gotten a lot of flack they don't deserve. A friend of mine builds and distributes what most people would consider "crapware" (toolbars, adware, etc.) and was flat out denied by IM when he tried to use them for distribution. Sure a bad apple or two might slip through, but according to my friend its rare to ever be denied by a distributor unless you're not willing to pay going rates. It seems like they…

The best way to "clean up" a dirty industry that adds no value is to starve it until it dies.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#59
People pay businesses like mine to remove the sorts of software that IM bundles. From the end-user's perspective, they don't understand how this stuff gets on their computer, and they don't feel comfortable removing it because they don't want to break anything.

Put another way: people "get" this software for free, and then pay other people to get rid of it.

And then other scuzzy companies have built a niche industry around the "PC tune-up", prompted by stuff like this software, charging a lot of money to people who don't know better. And, often all these companies do is run software that has been specifically designed to remove junk software.

A lot of this niche is exploitative, taking advantage of people who don't know better, and it's all supported by the bundling of this crap. That goes well beyond "opinion"; "opinion" might be, "Facebook is crap", but there isn't an entire market built around people paying other people to shut down Facebook accounts. Users aren't "choosing" to install these things any more than someone might "choose" to step on a pile of doggy doo in the park.

IM really isn't your responsibility though, so thanks for getting them to flush out the OSS-wrapped stuff at least.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#60
All the technical details aside, if you guys at YC ask yourself "Am I proud of funding this startup?" we both know what the answer is. In all fairness, PG said that YC funded another project from this company; I guess they've just used the YC name for credibility.

I find it quite ironic how PG went from building a spam filters to funding a spam company. Just for your information, this is what you've put your money and using your growth YC alumni for: http://www.kraftfuttermischwerk.de/blogg/wp-content/uploads2....

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