What we discovered about InstallMonetizer • Hacker News Board

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#11

Post by lawnchair_larry » Mon, Jan 21, 2013, 6:53 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #2

Good to know that you did something about it PG :) I will remain liking your work! :) But please, keep paying attention... I think that sometimes if companies can get away with doing bad stuff, they will (in that case maybe it was not malicious, but getting IP and MAC addresses is kinda dangerous for example).

Doesn't sound like he did anything to me. We all know damn well that this is crapware, and the only people who install it are confused or just clicking through.

Set the default to opt-out with no encouraging language and you'll see how much users really "want" it.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#12

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Jan 21, 2013, 6:53 PM UTC

>Every IM install screen has a decline as well as an accept button, and if the user declines, no software is installed.

Which is the default? Decline or accept?

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#13

Post by dsl » Mon, Jan 21, 2013, 6:57 PM UTC

These guys have gotten a lot of flack they don't deserve. A friend of mine builds and distributes what most people would consider "crapware" (toolbars, adware, etc.) and was flat out denied by IM when he tried to use them for distribution. Sure a bad apple or two might slip through, but according to my friend its rare to ever be denied by a distributor unless you're not willing to pay going rates.

It seems like they are working to clean up a dirty industry. Just like AdWords did to the PPC business.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#14

Post by glass- » Mon, Jan 21, 2013, 6:58 PM UTC

The vast majority of people are not deliberately choosing to install the software. They are "accepting" it by accident, by pressing the wrong button or because they are rushing through the installation and are not paying attention.

No consumer wants this stuff. The advertiser's software is a nuisance and gives no advantages to the end-user.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#15

Post by swampthing » Mon, Jan 21, 2013, 6:59 PM UTC

SandB0x wrote: post #4

I think people will be wondering if this resembles the founders' ideas when they were funded by you, and if this represents the kind of company you wish to be funding. You may of course defend the product on technical grounds (accept buttons, EULAs, etc) but I find it hard to believe that you truly think it is anything but a nuisance to end-users.

Just because you or I might find something to be a nuisance, doesn't mean most end-users will. Done right, I can easily see unsophisticated end-users being appreciative at being offered useful software that they would otherwise have not known about. I see this crap on my mom's computer all the time - she's bothered by it only if it affects performance or pops up with some message. If it's just sitting there, or if she actually uses it, she couldn't care less how it got there.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#16

Post by pg » Mon, Jan 21, 2013, 7:01 PM UTC

SandB0x wrote: post #4

I think people will be wondering if this resembles the founders' ideas when they were funded by you, and if this represents the kind of company you wish to be funding. You may of course defend the product on technical grounds (accept buttons, EULAs, etc) but I find it hard to believe that you truly think it is anything but a nuisance to end-users.

They're working on something new, and all the office hours I had with them were about that. They're not even in our database of companies as InstallMonetizer but as the new thing. (I'm not sure if I can say the name because it may not be launched yet.) I knew they had some previous product that was called a Windows installer, but I don't think we ever talked about what it did.

The whole world of Windows software seems pretty grim, and when people get something for free or cheap they're often willing to click through a bunch of buttons to get it, but as far as I can tell IM isn't actually misleading anyone. E.g. as far as I can tell it's no worse than all the upsells people have to click through to register domains on GoDaddy.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#17

Post by api » Mon, Jan 21, 2013, 7:02 PM UTC

glass- wrote: post #14

The vast majority of people are not deliberately choosing to install the software. They are "accepting" it by accident, by pressing the wrong button or because they are rushing through the installation and are not paying attention. No consumer wants this stuff. The advertiser's software is a nuisance and gives no advantages to the end-user.

That's one of the hard things about advertising-- beyond an informative product announcement, most other advertising ranges from useless to annoying to the consumer. I know that I spend a certain amount of almost unconscious mental energy ignoring advertising, and any time I do research I have to sieve the results to filter out biased advertising-driven material. (It's particularly bad in health-related stuff.)

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#18

Post by yuhong » Mon, Jan 21, 2013, 7:04 PM UTC

glass- wrote: post #14

The vast majority of people are not deliberately choosing to install the software. They are "accepting" it by accident, by pressing the wrong button or because they are rushing through the installation and are not paying attention. No consumer wants this stuff. The advertiser's software is a nuisance and gives no advantages to the end-user.

This doesn't mean pushing useful software isn't possible.

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#19

Post by DoubleCluster » Mon, Jan 21, 2013, 7:05 PM UTC

> Every IM install screen has a decline as well as an accept button

Well, could you provide a screenshot of that screen? Usually users are misled into thinking they are accepting the install of the software they actually downloaded.

> The apps that get installed are "crapware." This one seems a matter of opinion.

Yeah... I don't think very highly of your opinion if you really think like that. Making someones computer slower or less usable by installing "unwanted software" is something that should be forbidden in my opinion. Really, do you have any idea how much hours of my life were lost by removing crapware from computers?

I did check the ycombinator.com website for any indication if the type of company or product was of any concern. I did not find anything about that. This probably means ycombinator is actually just interested in the money and not in making the world a better place. Silly idealistic me...

Re: What we discovered about InstallMonetizer

#20

Post by api » Mon, Jan 21, 2013, 7:06 PM UTC

mehuln wrote: post #8

This is a company doing the right thing in these messy industry. They are growing and winning because they are playing by the rules and trying to do the right thing!

This may be true. I don't think they're doing anything truly unethical -- if everything pg says is true -- and they may indeed be trying to bring some improvement to a sloppy and shady industry.

That being said, this sort of thing is sort of depressing. It's representative of the ho-hum dregs of innovation being offered up by most startups, at least in the Internet sphere. If I didn't know better, and I don't, I'd say the net is showing signs of being stuck in a holding pattern. Yuck.

All the interesting stuff seems to be in other areas: bio-medical, consumer devices, high-tech hobbyist stuff, and in the big ticket realm aerospace and transportation.