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School district builds own software to handle student data, defies doubters

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Re: School district builds own software to handle student data, defies doubters

#21
post #8

I am watching this project pretty closely, because I believe pretty strongly that there is much room in education for some high-quality os software. I also believe this software has the potential to facilitate some pretty significant change in public education. I really want to see some high-quality os solutions become prominent in the education world. The software development world has had numerous os tools for deca…

" Most teachers are still writing their lesson plans in Word or its equivalent, which is like writing your code in notepad without any coding-specific extensions. " There are plug-ins for Word that can produce quizzes, and most of the interactive white-board software packages (each dedicated to a make of interactive white-board) can import from Powerpoint or allow authoring of interactive content. What I as a teacher…

I was talking about a different project that I would like to see happen, but built using a similar development model. To be more specific, I'd like to see a dedicated curriculum development tool built. I;d like it to be high-quality and open source, so it can see widespread use in schools of every economic level.

I am not envisioning a simple plugin to a word processing tool; I am imagining a dedicated curriculum development tool that manages things like importing standards, and connecting detailed parts of a learning plan to bigger-picture summaries.

I in no way imagine such a tool being mandated for anyone; I simply imagine a tool that is powerful enough that people will see it used well by experienced teachers, and want to use it themselves.

Re: School district builds own software to handle student data, defies doubters

#22
post #20
post #8

I am watching this project pretty closely, because I believe pretty strongly that there is much room in education for some high-quality os software. I also believe this software has the potential to facilitate some pretty significant change in public education. I really want to see some high-quality os solutions become prominent in the education world. The software development world has had numerous os tools for deca…

Hey man, I feel like your interests and mine intersect? Do you have any personal Twitter/microblogging streams I can subscribe to? :)

I have some contact information in my profile, and I'd be happy to hear from you or anyone else.

Re: School district builds own software to handle student data, defies doubters

#23
In the late 90s the San Francisco school district was sold a PeopleWare system, whereupon they paid consultants millions of dollars to customize the package. 'Twas a failure; they tossed it all away.

I don't remember the details, though I was feeling their pain, having to deal with (a) the unbelievably horrid, steaming pile that is PeopleWare, and (b) the clouds of consultants that start calling you up and pumping you for money once it is out that you're doing an install of the pile. (Hint: You don't need any help from a high-price consultant to install PeopleWare. You need a can of gasoline and a match).

So the thought of a school district doing this on their own makes me smile. They could do worse!

Re: School district builds own software to handle student data, defies doubters

#24
There is where the federal government I think can help and step in to provide a hosted open source education system (wit a local appliance for caching and to survive outages). Not just for student registration and grades, but US-wide shared lesson plans, shared success stories, realtime metrics and for parents, etc.

Re: School district builds own software to handle student data, defies doubters

#25

1.5 million, close to 2 years and a "small band" of programmers to deliver a specialized product working on-site with the end users. Call me naive, but this sounds completely reasonable to me.

Agreed. I'd go further and say I would expect many here have successfully completed similarly complex projects single-handedly with a lot less time and money.

As I grow older, I'm increasingly starting to believe that many of the advancements in sophistication of software are actually somehow making it much less possible to successfully implement relatively complex solutions on budget - I am making this comparison to the relatively short era where platforms like PowerBuilder/Delphi/MSAccess were popular. If you mention on of those products now for literally anything, you'll be met with howls of laughter, but for the life of me I don't understand. Meanwhile, spending $2 million on a project that is laughably short on functionality and seems to take weeks to make the smallest of changes is considered (with grave seriousness and 100% infallible confidence) to be perfectly proper.

Re: School district builds own software to handle student data, defies doubters

#26

For me, while it's absolutely no surprise, it's still quite depressing the clear lobbying that is/will occur to trample this project. As others have said, the cost seems quite realistic and I would put my money on the 8-person having a much better handle on the end-users needs over some big consulting-ware shop. But the big firms surely have great influence with those most able to appropriate the funds for whatever s…

It's a little amazing, when you think about it, that a lot of people think you need to spend $100 million to build software to manage grades and attendance.

Especially as geeks in the startup world often build far more complicated software on budgets quite a bit smaller than $5 million.

Re: School district builds own software to handle student data, defies doubters

#27
I'm pretty familiar with this problem space having worked in both a state department of education and a school district.

I would not expect this to be a long term success. Virtually every district of reasonable size starts with a homegrown and maintained solution and ends up going with one of the big guys for lots of reasons.

1. Security/liability. You have to have pretty damn good systems here and definitely want to point at someone else's assurances and contract that allows for recourse.

2. Rapidly changing business requirements. This is everything from state and federal reporting requirements to the expectations of end users. It's hard enough to maintain these core systems and keep folks around who are good enough to do it. Now deal with changing technology (oh you want a parent portal? Oh, you don't want to use Flash/Java for iPads? Oh you want ...) and you really can't attract and retain the kind of software people you'd want to continually redesign, refactor, rebuild, extend, and expand. Development on these systems never stops, which is why it's often easier to just drop off the old and buy the new hotness. It's also why scale is so helpful with these systems. If your users want this, someone else already requested it or will shortly. A lot of the improvements in these systems happen because of how many users they have and can be made because the cost is spread across all those users.

3. Interoperability with other systems. Most of these systems are not omnibus catchall solutions for the entire business needs of a school district. That's probably for the better-- the folks who try to do that end up doing it very poorly. But you will want your HR and payroll to talk to your student information system that should probably talk to your assessment system that should talk to your curriculum management system that should talk to your special education IEP case load management system, etc. It's hard to do this and even harder when your solution is built to work in one context. Standards here have only barely helped. Middleware is expensive, shitty work. Again, not easy to attract killer talent and it is a constant need. The big boys have everything else built and just focus on middleware and have probably already worked with and written what's required for all of the popular systems you are using in these other areas.

This is just the smallest fraction of reasons it's a huge PITA to write and maintain these systems. That's not to say that it can't be done but it is to say that this is not a small, well-defined problem space with just a few distinct end-user types and functional requirements that can be built once and then monitored and tweaked over time. Not if you want to do the real stuff that makes collecting and maintaining all of this data worthwhile.

Re: School district builds own software to handle student data, defies doubters

#28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Most teachers are still writing their lesson plans in Word or its equivalent, which is like writing your code in notepad without any coding-specific extensions. " There are plug-ins for Word that can produce quizzes, and most of the interactive white-board software packages (each dedicated to a make of interactive white-board) can import from Powerpoint or allow authoring of interactive content. What I as a teacher…

I was talking about a different project that I would like to see happen, but built using a similar development model. To be more specific, I'd like to see a dedicated curriculum development tool built. I;d like it to be high-quality and open source, so it can see widespread use in schools of every economic level. I am not envisioning a simple plugin to a word processing tool; I am imagining a dedicated curriculum dev…

"I simply imagine a tool that is powerful enough that people will see it used well by experienced teachers, and want to use it themselves."

Well, good luck, and if you have thought through the detail of this I would be interested to see the specification (in the Spolsky sense) for the system you envisage.

"I in no way imagine such a tool being mandated for anyone"

Of course everyone will have to use it!

Edit: parent poster is also a teacher, so he must know that anything that is suggested by management as a central tool will immediately become mandatory!

Re: School district builds own software to handle student data, defies doubters

#30
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about a different project that I would like to see happen, but built using a similar development model. To be more specific, I'd like to see a dedicated curriculum development tool built. I;d like it to be high-quality and open source, so it can see widespread use in schools of every economic level. I am not envisioning a simple plugin to a word processing tool; I am imagining a dedicated curriculum dev…

" I simply imagine a tool that is powerful enough that people will see it used well by experienced teachers, and want to use it themselves. " Well, good luck, and if you have thought through the detail of this I would be interested to see the specification (in the Spolsky sense) for the system you envisage. " I in no way imagine such a tool being mandated for anyone " Of course everyone will have to use it! Edit: par…

I am hoping to complete my MEd in December, and I want to complete an mvp of an os ed tool as my masters project. I wrote a bit about the tool I envision previously [1], and I recognize that the next step is writing a proper spec. That will be part of the masters work.

Nice to see another teacher on here!

[1] http://peak5390.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/why-do-programmers-...

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