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Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

danwin.com

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Re: Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

#21

Post by jamesjporter »

maxharris wrote: post #19

What would Tufte say about someone that tried to "liberate" his beautiful, expensive and excellent books? Would he be outraged at the sight of "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" available as a pdf on a torrent site? If Swartz and his ideas were so marvelous, why is Tufte still charging any money for his work?

As I understand it, Swartz believed in open access to publicly funded research, not freedom of information in a more general sense. There is a substantial distinction between the two; I don't think Aaron would have taken issue with Tufte charging for his book.

Re: Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

#22

Post by keithpeter »

"...in this part, Tufte related how he told Aaron, half-seriously, that Aaron’s main fault was downloading millions of articles when only a few thousand were worth downloading."

So true; the trick is in recognising and curating those few thousand.

Re: Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

#23

Post by danso »

lizzard wrote: post #7

I had no idea Tufte had been a blue box hacker. Amazing story.

I was hoping someone here could shed some light on this. This would apparently be the first time (according to Google) Tufte has ever talked about experimenting with blue-boxes. I have no doubt he (and whoever his Stanford roommate was) had the technical chops to do it. I just wonder how he knows his was the "first"...since blue-box experimentation seems to have spontaneously come about after hackers put 2 and 2 together...and there was no Hacker News/Slashdot/Internet to post (with a timestamp) the exploit. Perhaps the AT&T official acted as if it were the first time they encountered a blue box in the wild?

Re: Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

#24

Post by kandahar »

jacquesm wrote: post #11
kandahar wrote: post #5

Oh, another old counter-culture guy who egged on an impressionable kid. How sad that Aaron's attempt to strike a blow like those of his mentors was so squalid. Kids, I'll tell you since these heroes won't: if your "hack" involves picking locks, buying multiple computers to bypass a download limit, and violating terms of use, it's not a movement and it is not heroic. Don't let these lazy essayits lead you down this pa…

I have an extremely pointy and very heartfelt remark that I'd like to throw your way but (1) I am trying very hard through all this to not let my seething anger get the better of me and (2) it would (rightly) get my account banned so in the interest of better judgement I've only downvoted you.

I am angry too, but at the mentors who accepted the worship of a troubled young man and led him to this. Why don't you make your pointed comment and risk a ban? Please, I can take it and it would be refreshing to see instead of all this crap directed at law enforcement. And if you are not creeper out by some of Aaron's mentors fondly recalling his cuteness, you are not paying attention to what was going on there. And now his corpse is being repurposed for several agendas. I'll go first and welcome a ban: fuck that.

Re: Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

#25

Post by danso »

maxharris wrote: post #19

What would Tufte say about someone that tried to "liberate" his beautiful, expensive and excellent books? Would he be outraged at the sight of "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" available as a pdf on a torrent site? If Swartz and his ideas were so marvelous, why is Tufte still charging any money for his work?

FWIW, a few years ago, someone asked Tufte for a copy of his out-of-print "Data Analysis for Politics and Policy" and Tufte posted the PDF files of it:

http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0...

It's an excellent book. Not as groundbreaking (or as illustrated) as his data visualization books, but filled with interesting observations on the intersection of data and policy. He really should do a new edition of it.

Re: Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

#26

Post by jacquesm »

Anechoic wrote: post #18
jacquesm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major difference that sticks out for me in your comparison is that free access to long distance calls is optional but free access to knowledge is not. A second difference is that it seemed there was a dialogue going, a dialogue during which if a similar one had happened between MIT and Aaron, MIT might have found out they were about to destroy something precious. AT&T, that well-known bastion of freedom and openn…

Finally I urge you to please watch Taren's video at the end of the linked article. I watched it. It was certainly touching. What specifically are you referring to in the video? Or just the whole thing?

The whole thing.

I think it was more than just touching, and I also think that it puts the lie to anybody that still wants to harp on the case not being the prime factor in Aarons life over the last two years as well as the reason why he choose to conclude it.

There are a number of very good questions in her address, questions that have no easy answer. Especially the ones about technology being used to improve the world, and the bit about 'magic'. After all, it really is close to magic, we wield all this power and we use it in the aggregate to sell advertising and gizmos. It's certainly food for thought for me.

Re: Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

#27

Post by maxharris »

jamesjporter wrote: post #21
maxharris wrote: post #19

What would Tufte say about someone that tried to "liberate" his beautiful, expensive and excellent books? Would he be outraged at the sight of "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" available as a pdf on a torrent site? If Swartz and his ideas were so marvelous, why is Tufte still charging any money for his work?

As I understand it, Swartz believed in open access to publicly funded research, not freedom of information in a more general sense. There is a substantial distinction between the two; I don't think Aaron would have taken issue with Tufte charging for his book.

It turns out that Tufte developed the content for "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" while at Princeton.

Although he did self-publish the book later at his own (considerable) expense, where do you think the money Princeton paid him all those years came from?

If you consistently apply Swartz's idea here, Tufte is in the wrong for charging for work that taxpayers helped fund. But I have a different take: Swartz's idea is bogus.

"In 1975, while at Princeton, Tufte was asked to teach a statistics course to a group of journalists who were visiting the school to study economics. He developed a set of readings and lectures on statistical graphics, which he further developed in joint seminars he subsequently taught with renowned statistician John Tukey, a pioneer in the field of information design. These course materials became the foundation for his first book on information design, The Visual Display of Quantitative Information.[5][6]

After difficult negotiations with mainline publishers failed, Tufte decided to self-publish Visual Display in 1982, working closely with graphic designer Howard Gralla. He financed the work by taking out a second mortgage on his home. The book quickly became a commercial success and secured his transition from political scientist to information expert.[5]"

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Tufte

Re: Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

#28

Post by danso »

maxharris wrote: post #27
jamesjporter wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, Swartz believed in open access to publicly funded research, not freedom of information in a more general sense. There is a substantial distinction between the two; I don't think Aaron would have taken issue with Tufte charging for his book.

It turns out that Tufte developed the content for "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" while at Princeton. Although he did self-publish the book later at his own (considerable) expense, where do you think the money Princeton paid him all those years came from? If you consistently apply Swartz's idea here, Tufte is in the wrong for charging for work that taxpayers helped fund. But I have a different take:…

Does coursework at a privately-funded institution count as publicly-funded research? Let's pretend that Princeton is a government institution: if someone uses his own salary, from the government's payroll, to develop and self-publish a book, that work belongs to the government? Did Tufte's mortgage belong to the government (or Princeton, in this case), too?

Re: Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

#29

Post by maxharris »

danso wrote: post #25
maxharris wrote: post #19

What would Tufte say about someone that tried to "liberate" his beautiful, expensive and excellent books? Would he be outraged at the sight of "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" available as a pdf on a torrent site? If Swartz and his ideas were so marvelous, why is Tufte still charging any money for his work?

FWIW, a few years ago, someone asked Tufte for a copy of his out-of-print "Data Analysis for Politics and Policy" and Tufte posted the PDF files of it: http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0... It's an excellent book. Not as groundbreaking (or as illustrated) as his data visualization books, but filled with interesting observations on the intersection of data and policy. He really should do a ne…

Thanks for the link! That is interesting.

Re: Edward Tufte’s defense of Aaron Swartz and the “marvelously different”

#30

Post by maxharris »

danso wrote: post #28
maxharris wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out that Tufte developed the content for "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" while at Princeton. Although he did self-publish the book later at his own (considerable) expense, where do you think the money Princeton paid him all those years came from? If you consistently apply Swartz's idea here, Tufte is in the wrong for charging for work that taxpayers helped fund. But I have a different take:…

Does coursework at a privately-funded institution count as publicly-funded research? Let's pretend that Princeton is a government institution: if someone uses his own salary, from the government's payroll, to develop and self-publish a book, that work belongs to the government? Did Tufte's mortgage belong to the government (or Princeton, in this case), too?

Of course not. That's my entire point: given today's mixed economy, when public money is used to aid the creation of a thing, it does not mean that the resulting work ought to belong to the public, contracts and agreements be damned.

Swartz obviously did not agree with that, or he would not have committed those crimes against JSTOR and MIT.

(By the way, the "private" universities, Princeton included, are only nominally private, and it's been that way for a long time. I think that should change: there ought to be a full separation of state and education.)

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