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Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

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Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#81

Post by fusiongyro »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #73
fusiongyro wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading others' experiences and yours is just reinforcing my notion that for any given idea there will be a school of thought that takes that idea to the absolute extreme. If the school of thought becomes famous you'll eventually wind up with a group of people boosting it simply out of some kind of sense of taste. I am not a Buddhist, but I have some trouble imagining that what the Buddha intended to create was somet…

I agree that absolutes are rarely beneficial. However, in defence of buddhism, it seems to me Buddha didn't want acquistion of a skill or material possession, but rather for people to rise above misery and be at peace and happy. That's a fine goal in my opinion, and I wouldn't want you to feel discouraged from learning more if it interests you, just trust in your own guide above any others.

Fair enough.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#82

Post by fusiongyro »

xk_id wrote: post #74
fusiongyro wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is harmful to have within your semantic environment both "spiritual" factors… and scientific factors such as the notion of "space-time" (which currently shape our civilisation). This is because the two belong to inconsistent sets, so they conflict. Harmful to what? Prove it—and not from first principles, because the human mind seems to have no trouble at all with combining arbitrary and contradictory concepts in…

> The only tangible harm is that it annoys people who attempt to apply logical reasoning to every situation and interaction, even where other human faculties are obviously more appropriate. You are applying logical reasoning at any given time. What varies only are the assumptions you're concsciously or unconsciously making about yourself and the world. As time passed by, humanity made various conscious and unconsciou…

And people call me crazy.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#83

Post by initself »

sraj wrote: post #44
initself wrote: post #29

I completed my 4th course in December. Vipassana meditation is the single greatest human experience that I know of. The experience of "wisdom arising by objectively observing sensations without reaction" is easily the most profound experience I have ever had and feels like a miracle every time it happens. The answers we are all looking for to fulfill ourselves and become truly happy certainly are inside of us. We jus…

Where can I take this course? I live in the Bay Area.

Go take the course in North Fork, CA.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#84

Post by initself »

dpnewman wrote: post #34
initself wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy for you! >> practically the whole notion of "intellect figuring out and resolving issues", seems now completely a misguided process" Makes me feel like all the book learning I ever did was all for naught (aside from technical learning that helps me do my job).

thanks! ...but let me clarify. book learning is utterly awesome!! when i say "resolving issues"... i mean purely the personal, subjective, 'worrisome' kind... the endless spinning narratives we struggle within. the attachment to solving issues these through out-thinking the anxiety: this process got deprecated ;)

Well, as you keep meditating, it becomes more and more clear that all the answers you are burning to understand are found within.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#85

Post by initself »

particular_ wrote: post #66

DISCLAIMER: This post focuses more on the Goenka courses than Vipassana meditation per se. I'm quite surprised that no dissenting opinion has yet surfaced on the topic of Goenka's courses. Most of the commentor's opinions here seem over-enthusiastic, describing the Goenka retreat as 'the best thing in [their] lives'. To me, this is a serious warning sign. I have attended a 10-day retreat, which ended prematurely (on…

I thrive on his mastery of Pali and his support through audio and video. The chanting (particularly the early morning chanting that begins around 5:30 AM), my limited but somewhat viable understanding of Pali, and the effort I make in meditation often line up in a beautiful synchronicity. I am convinced that the meaning behind the Pali chanting and the experience I have of Dhamma on a moment-to-moment basis in meditation are connected, inherently.

Additionally, most of the old students I observe during the course meditate straight through the evening discourses. They are not treated as breaks. Noticing this, I took to meditating through the evening discourses myself and found that the meaning of Goenka's lectures increases dramatically, especially at the end when he concludes ardently wishing that others may find real joy, real happiness, real peace.

Not once in the course does Goenka exhort the mediators to unquestioningly believe in reincarnation or the vibratory nature of the body. On the contrary, he, like Gotama the Buddha, encourage one not to take anything on faith but instead to find your own answers.

There's no manipulation going on during any of the recorded information played at the course. You are only asked to follow the time table, the precepts and hopefully to "work seriously".

I am sorry you had to leave the course early and that you had a sour experience. May you find Dhamma again!

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#86

Post by initself »

delackner wrote: post #57
gesman wrote: post #7

I loved about the course: - Amazing food - Donation/karma-driven sustainability. Sort of Open Source Meditation :) - Silence (no bullshit talking and no bullshit listening for 10 days) - Heightened sense of creativity achieved - Heightened sense of humor achieved - Great attention to needs to everyone from organizers. - It's funny - I always gave funny nicknames to everyone. I didn't mind: - Goenka parables. I didn't…

A lot of people discussing the 1 hour in the morning, 1 hour before bed requirement. I also found this impractical, but lately I have been pondering something that Goenka said on this subject: If you don't have enough time, sleep less. When I heard this, it sounded ridiculous, since sleep is so important for the body. A theory I have been developing is that perhaps meditation that achieves a no-mind state for a long…

Yes, there is no doubt that if you meditate two hours a day, you won't need to sleep as much. You can basically assume you can lose about 1 hour of sleep, safely.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#87

Post by particular_ »

initself wrote: post #85
particular_ wrote: post #66

DISCLAIMER: This post focuses more on the Goenka courses than Vipassana meditation per se. I'm quite surprised that no dissenting opinion has yet surfaced on the topic of Goenka's courses. Most of the commentor's opinions here seem over-enthusiastic, describing the Goenka retreat as 'the best thing in [their] lives'. To me, this is a serious warning sign. I have attended a 10-day retreat, which ended prematurely (on…

I thrive on his mastery of Pali and his support through audio and video. The chanting (particularly the early morning chanting that begins around 5:30 AM), my limited but somewhat viable understanding of Pali, and the effort I make in meditation often line up in a beautiful synchronicity. I am convinced that the meaning behind the Pali chanting and the experience I have of Dhamma on a moment-to-moment basis in medita…

In hindsight, I can see that I had really been expecting too much from the retreat, but I don't consider the whole experience negative. I would rather call it an "early failure".

As for dhamma matters: So far this year, I've been able to keep up with daily meditation practice, so not all is lost.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#88

Post by particular_ »

bcjordan wrote: post #76
particular_ wrote: post #66

DISCLAIMER: This post focuses more on the Goenka courses than Vipassana meditation per se. I'm quite surprised that no dissenting opinion has yet surfaced on the topic of Goenka's courses. Most of the commentor's opinions here seem over-enthusiastic, describing the Goenka retreat as 'the best thing in [their] lives'. To me, this is a serious warning sign. I have attended a 10-day retreat, which ended prematurely (on…

Having completed a full course, I agree with you regarding the video content. It went beyond practice guidance and veered into disappointing endorsements of woo-woo. The nightly videos start out objective and practice-focused, but by the middle of the course Goenka suggests quantum-scariness explanations for the sensations meditators are feeling. As one retreat participant noted, in one of the nightly video talks [0]…

The arguments made by the poster in your link really resounded with me. It goes against my ethics to recommend these courses to people who are actively seeking to jump-start their meditative practice.

As far as being a rationalist goes, I'm not confident that I can always keep my mind free from unwanted social/religious influence, or allow myself to be influenced in a controlled manner. I'm glad that this one off-hand remark about bubble chambers actually awakened me from a cognitive stupor, but I can't be sure that, under slightly different circumstances, I wouldn't have ignored the doubts and the red lights going off somewhere in the back of my head.

Cognitive blind spots are a real thing, and my guess is that many Eastern religious groups are very sophisticated in how they use these blind spots to appeal to intelligent, but unsuspecting, individuals. Eastern techniques of religious indoctrination greatly differ from the guilt-based Christian approach that most of us are familiar with.

I stand by my position: these retreats are not simply meditation courses. They are a religious ritual held by a well-organized religious group. Moreover, they are deceptively advertised as non-religious, and herein lies my problem with them.

If someone wishes to learn meditation from a religious source, I think it is wise to refer to an organization that is overt in its practice and beliefs.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#89

Post by javajosh »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #72
javajosh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At this point, I freaked out. I was worried that I'd done damage to my brain. That freakout, and that worry (which you apparently have since discovered was unfounded, I hope :) is precisely what the meditation helps you deal with, among other things. And yes, it kind of sucks that the teachers can't speak more at liberty with you. But there's a lesson there too: in the end, the answer to any trouble you might have i…

"You were wrong." In what way was I wrong? Perhaps you don't understand that whilst the panic attack was the 'straw that broke the camels back' so to speak, it was the teachings and approach that I disagreed with most in the end, the panic attack just woke me up to paying more attention to them. "Vipassanna is the rather upsetting path toward learning to be able to sit quietly in a room, alone." If that's all it was,…

>In what way was I wrong?

"I was worried that I'd done damage to my brain" implies that you believed your brain was at risk from meditation. You continued through the course, and yet your brain still functions. You assessed the risk to your brain as "high", you came out of it (presumably) without brain damage, ergo your threat assessment was wrong.

To put it another way, you were describing your mind state in a point in time which was incorrectly assessing itself. It turned out that you did not do damage to your brain. You thought your brain was at risk, and your own experience showed that you were wrong to assess the risk so highly.

Yeah, I have (strong) disagreements with the discourses - not just the kalapas thing, but the reference to higher- and lower existences, not to mention the dogma of rebirth. It's mentioned in passing, but it contradicts earlier claims of "non-sectarianism". In fact, it left such a bad taste in my mouth I left my first course (5th night). I went back and almost left again, but mastered my anger. The third time I was less angry. Now I just laugh - the Buddha (and Goenka) are just products of their time, communicating as best they can with the tools they have. The core observations, the core practice, doesn't require any of it.

Re: Vipassana: 10 days of solitude and insights gained from it

#90

Post by javajosh »

initself wrote: post #22

Guys, what you are calling "Sarkanas", the Goenka tradition is calling "Sankhara". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%85kh%C4%81ra Nothing woo-woo about "conditioned phenomena". And it's not really a "Vipassana" term as much as a philosophical term in general. That's just the Pali name for it.

Well, to be fair Goenka uses some rather charged terms as synonyms for sankharas, such as "defilements", "impurities", etc.
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