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Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

harpers.org

211–220 of 270 posts

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#211

Wondering if anybody else is scared this is going to set a precedent for people who feel like they cannot endure a federal trial and simply opt for suicide instead. Over the past several weeks, I've been completely numbed by all the outrage and media this event is generating. If I was a well known hacktivist and saw what has transpired here, it makes it look like being a martyr for your cause is considerably more ben…

If someone feels strongly enough about an issue to give his or her life to advance it, I'm not going to contradict that sentiment. On the scale of things, the media exaggerates far worse things (e.g. they'd have you believe that violent crime in the USA hasn't been dropping precipitously over the last two decades). Also, giving one's life for a cause is a much more ethical action than taking others' lives for that reason, but it seems quite a bit rarer.

(I know that Swartz is said to have suffered from depression which could be considered another factor in his suicide, but I'm specifically addressing this point which is unrelated to mental illness.)

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because she abused her official capacity to hound a much more honorable and talented person than herself to the point of suicide? Honestly, for all the jaded and cynical people trying to play 'the adult' by defending the corrupt and immoral actions of the justice system and its officials based on legal technicalities--you don't come across as knowledgeable or reasonable, just spineless and enabling. Hiding behind rul…

Have you read Orrin Kerr's two posts? They're long, but absolutely worth reading. It is by no means clear that Ortiz is some kind of demon.

Kerr's posts make the case that her actions were legal and conventional, not moral.

I'm not claiming she's a demon. It is very common for otherwise decent people to do evil in their institutional roles. But history shows that it's very very dangerous to permit this as an excuse.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#214
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In international relations, there's a whole literature devoted to signalling: looking at how states send signals to other states. There's a huge amount of evidence showing that the signals received are very often different from the ones transmitted.

The race of the defendant isn't a salient part of this. We don't have to wait for a black Aaron Swartz to act, on the far-fetched premise that the only thing that will be noticed by prosecutors was his color. This is a far-fetched idea. Federal prosecutors are certainly intelligent enough to understand many of the factors which make this sensitive, including a suicide, internet backing, the specific alleged crime and…

Are we really going to pretend that federal prosecutors are colorblind, that aren't significant racial disparities in federal sentencing already?

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#215
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples please.

* "Aaron was just violating TOS" * "They were pushing for 35/50 years in prison" * "This is just like using my neighbor's Wifi" * "They were trumping up charges to make an example of Aaron" (before you downvote, read Kerr's posts). * "They were aiming for harshest possible sentence" * There was also the very nice individual who doxxed Ortiz, who I'm sure is a fine representative of all that is right with hacktivism.…

>> And in the meantime there has been very little commentary over the major (not only, but major) cause of this (untreated depression), presumably because that doesn't play into the agenda. Likewise there is little discussion on ways to amend CFAA to make it better-aligned with what we intuitively feel would be appropriate (because in the hacktivist mold the only good change would be to repeal CFAA entirely). Feel free to say I'm seeing it wrong, but I don't think I am.

Actually it has been discussed. As per his father:

""" Bob Swartz also dismissed the notion that his son had a depressive personality.

"He had never been diagnosed as having depression; he was never on medication for having depression," Swartz said.

Aaron Swartz's mother had been hospitalized in December 2011 after having a bowel obstruction and going into septic shock, Bob Swartz said. She spent several weeks in a coma, four months in intensive care, and two more months in the hospital.

"So the notion, the narrative that people are going to say -- is that he’s somebody who just has depression -- is just wrong. You’d be depressed too if you were under a 13-count federal indictment and you go see your mother, who’s in a coma."

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#216
It may be unfair to single out Ms. Ortiz, she is after all only one of many federal prosecutors; but reforming the american justice system is an urgent priority, and we must start somewhere. A society where justice is widely perceived to be available only to the most powerful and well-connected is one that is primed to fall prey to any number of severe and most likely violent pathologies.

The legitimacy of the legal system is the result of centuries of work by jurists, judges, legal scholars, politicians and others; each of whom added their effort to making it so that not only they believed the law had dealt fairly with those who came before it but also that it had appeared to be fair to the rest of society. When that legitimacy is eroded, for personal benefit, for career aspirations, to please those whose favor is sought, for any reason; it takes much less effort. But the damage is subtle, people give lip service to institutions long after they have become hollow shells of their former glory.

In this country, at this time; the law is an instrument of social control, of thievery ( read the literature on civil forfeiture, if that statement bothers you ), of vengeance, and only rarely and incidentally of justice. Most of us know this. But it is one of the truths that cannot be spoken in polite society.

At this time, most of us know but are unwilling to acknowledge, that the law is an outrageously powerful instrument that acts randomly and capriciously. If you happen to be of the wrong color, speak the wrong language, or practice the wrong religion in the wrong place at the wrong time; you can be given a status equivalent to Orwell's formulation of an 'unperson'. If you happen to cross the path of someone who has access to the controls of this fearsome legal apparatus, your guilt or innocence, your rightness or wrongness; is irrelevant. All that matters is whether they decide to take an interest in your case; if you are deemed a target, all that matters is what crime can be made to fit your situation.

It would seem axiomatic, that this is an untenable situation; that once this state obtains, it will not be long before the law becomes a disreputable joke, a sad reminder of former greatness, and a jungle in which everyone is a predator and fears becoming prey.

That is why the reform of our justice system is such an urgent matter. We have eroded the legitimacy of our courts to a degree that their proclaimed fairness is a dismal jest to anyone who has been in prolonged contact with them.

We have allowed our legal system to be infected with concepts of intrinsic guilt, of theft under color of law, of monarchical privilege, of illegal truths; all of which are antithetical to a functional and free society.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#218
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless the university library it itself providing a unified accessible system to access a torrented (and somehow constantly up to date?) archive of JSTOR, then JSTOR will not be dropped. You are having serious tunnel vision if you think all grad students and professors want to spend their time fucking around with that, or even know how to do that.

I know that every university, there are multiple servers where students share terabytes of pirated movies, TV shows and music. And every university already has a unified accessible non-JSTOR system for reading old journal articles: its called the journal stacks in the library basement + interlibrary loan. Everyone already knows how to deal with that: its just less convenient.

umm. That may have been true in the latter half of the '90s and the first half of the 'noughties but it is certainly not true today. Most universities have an extensive copyright policing function in their network operations center, designed to shield them from liability.

Not to say that pirate servers aren't hanging out on Uni nets these days, but they are stealthed, and deniable.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really not getting the impression that Ortiz was a good soul trappend in a bad system. To the contrary, she seems to be the embodiment of the bad system. To the good souls who are actually trapped alongside her, she's a prime example of the problem they're facing, in that monsters like her are what gets promoted, leaving people who are better than her no choices beyond going along quietly or exiting altogether. I mea…

Keep in mind that all federal prosecutors are 100% committed to putting (especially poor and minority) citizens in prison for years for the victimless crimes of drug possession and distribution. This practice has destroyed hundreds of communities and millions of lives. There are no good apples in this barrel. Every federal prosecutor should get some portion of the punishments they're so eager to mete out.

So I take it you have signed affidavits from every federal prosecutor to that effect? And proof that drug possession and distribution are always entirely victimless.

The fact is that I generally support decriminalisation, and that I acknowledge the fact that prosecution tends to treat those of lesser socioeconomic standing (such as the poor and those belonging to minorities) badly. But blanket statements generally don't help. Especially those calling for the blanket punishment of a wide ranging group of people whom are most likely doing that which they feel is right (never attribute to malice what can adequately attributed to ignorance).

Edit: Accidentally a word (The fact that -> The fact is that)

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the law cares" ...and the law is wrong. It is wrong, because it is no longer serving the interests of the people governed by it. The entire basis for the US legal system is that laws serve the interest of the people, not that laws are handed down from above or that the law itself has any moral or ethical justification. If society's interests are no longer served by a law -- and it is hard to argue that in the case o…

Here's a suggestion: exclude scientific articles from copyright restrictions. Your proposal is unconstitutional. "Takings" must be compensated or you run into 5th amendment issues. If you want a compromise, how about this: exclude those articles for which the research was paid for with tax dollars from copyright. At my school, I owned the copyright to anything I published unless I used school resources. Even if I pub…

"Takings" must be compensated or you run into 5th amendment issues.

Two words: civil forfeiture

Running into constitutional issues isn't even a speed bump to the government at this point. That ship sailed long ago.

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