Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having grown up in New Mexico, I didn't classify Aaron as "white". I don't know if he did.
What do you mean?
Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out
181–190 of 270 posts
Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. There is no reason to think that any university or organization would have given up its JSTOR subscription because an archive was made available on BitTorrent. At the very least, universities would want up-to-date articles, and so anything published after the archive was amassed (which would be a large number in just a year's time) would still motivate a subscription. There is also JSTOR's search service, and the…
anything published after the archive was amassed would still motivate a subscription For many journals, JSTOR doesn't have recent content available anyway; Universities typically subscribe to publishers to get electronic access to recent content while relying on JSTOR for access to older content. Why should we care if JSTOR goes out of business because an archive is published? It doesn't matter whether you care or no…
...and the law is wrong. It is wrong, because it is no longer serving the interests of the people governed by it. The entire basis for the US legal system is that laws serve the interest of the people, not that laws are handed down from above or that the law itself has any moral or ethical justification. If society's interests are no longer served by a law -- and it is hard to argue that in the case of academic publishing, copyrights actually serve society's interests -- then the law should repealed.
"Do prosecutors and judges have to agree with that statement? What happens when they don't?"
They become the targets of congressional investigations, which is what is happening to Carmen Ortiz right now. It is horrifying that it took the death of a man with a bright future to bring this issue to the public's attention, but now that everyone is looking it is good to see Congress doing something that helps people for a change. Minute as the response from Congress has been, it is at least a step in the right direction.
"prosecutors and judges have to enforce the law as it is"
No they don't. Prosecutors have to serve the interests of the public and are expected to decline prosecution in cases where they are asked to prosecute someone whose actions were potentially illegal but both benefited the public and were neither harmful nor dangerous. Judges are expected to strike down laws that violate the constitution, and to give light or suspended sentences to people who are guilty of violating the law but whose imprisonment or punishment would do nothing to benefit society. The idea that prosecutors and judges have some kind of obligation to enforce laws that are clearly misguided is on the level of the fallacy that juries have a duty to convict if the evidence shows a defendant is guilty (jury nullification is an important check on laws that the public disagrees with).
"does it make scanning and digitzing old paper journals free also? Does it make it so that data entry techs typing in metadata describing old paper journals don't have to paid?"
That is an organizational problem, not a technology or legal issue. Universities could do this via their library system, or we could set up a system where people who voluntarily scan articles or write metadata get preferential treatment when they search or download (think of BitTorrent trackers that give preferential treatment to users with higher seed ratios). For that matter, why should we have to rely on a single organization or system? Maybe you are better than I am when it comes to entering metadata; maybe other people would rather trust your metadata over mine. Maybe we could set up something like a web of trust.
It is not like this could not be done; it is more like the law stops it in order to protect an obsolete business model.
"How are we going to do that exactly?"
Here's a suggestion: exclude scientific articles from copyright restrictions. If you want a compromise, how about this: exclude those articles for which the research was paid for with tax dollars from copyright. As a first step, that would not be so bad. Let the copyright battle be exclusive to entertainment and software, and leave human knowledge out of it.
We are already questioning the CFAA as a result of this case. Why not question copyrights as well?
"So, copyright laws will be enforced when it comes to stealing proprietary source code, but not for old journals?"
That would at least be a step in the right direction.
"Is it that copyright law shouldn't be enforced because you've decided journal publishers are rapacious parasites (I think they are too actually)? Or that copyright law should only get enforced for entities that contribute something to human knowledge?"
It is that copyright law was meant to ensure our access to the knowledge that journal publishers publish, but that in today's world it is actually making that knowledge harder to access. The copyright system was never meant to ensure that the authors of scholarly articles would be paid; it was meant to ensure that the publishing system would be monetized. At the time, the publishing industry was the best way to make enough copies of scientific journals to satisfy society's need, and the publishing system is expensive and must be paid for. Everything other than the distribution of articles is irrelevant to copyrights, because everything else is done by volunteers (writing, reviewing, and editing) and would continue to be done regardless of money.
We no longer need that system, because we have a distribution system that is substantially more efficient and less costly. Copyright is no longer promoting the best system for distributing scholarly articles; it is now preventing the use of that system and promoting an anachronistic system that by today's standards is shockingly inefficient. It seems reasonable to conclude that copyrights should simply not be applied to academic publishing, at least as copyrights currently exist, and that a new legal framework that promotes the use of the Internet should be enacted.
Sure, there are hurdles. Publishers serve as archives, they pay people to insert metadata, and sometimes they even scan older articles for us. I fail to see how these activities could not be accomplished with the publishing industry. Universities already have more than enough computer capacity to act as archives (I know a professor who took the time to scan his entire library, thousands of textbooks -- it fits on a couple of external hard drives sitting on his desk, with room to spare for storing all patents ever granted in all countries). Metadata is something that could be done as a community, perhaps via some sort of system as I had mentioned above, or it could be done by the universities themselves as a one-time cost for old articles (metadata for new articles could be inserted automatically when those articles are published). Scanners are not hard to find -- my school's library makes many available to patrons, I have one on my desk, and my department has many as well (and of course, I know someone who scanned thousands of books on his own); again, we could create a system that incentivizes scanning as a community effort, or rely on universities to do it. If we actually cared about the original goal of copyrights as related to academic publishing, we would be investing some time in finding better ways to do things now that we have the technology to do so.
You could summarize the argument like this: the law is standing in the way of the sort of progress that society is desperately in need of; therefore, changing the law is imperative.
Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
"But I do think he was trying to destroy significant financial value" Lock me up then, because I have been pushing people to abandon the academic publishing industry and share knowledge more freely for a while now. Since when should any of us care about what happens to those leeches? Is JSTOR's archive valuable for society? Not anymore because we have a much better way to spread human knowledge: peer to peer networki…
Since when should any of us care about what happens to those leeches? Can you give me a list of entities for which copyright law no longer applies? Or do you think copyright law no longer applies for everyone? Better yet, just give me a list of laws that I can now break with impunity, because you said so.
Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
In international relations, there's a whole literature devoted to signalling: looking at how states send signals to other states. There's a huge amount of evidence showing that the signals received are very often different from the ones transmitted.
The race of the defendant isn't a salient part of this. We don't have to wait for a black Aaron Swartz to act, on the far-fetched premise that the only thing that will be noticed by prosecutors was his color. This is a far-fetched idea. Federal prosecutors are certainly intelligent enough to understand many of the factors which make this sensitive, including a suicide, internet backing, the specific alleged crime and…
/s
Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out
#185I'm happy to see the change and the backlash against Oritz, but I wish this happened sooner.
Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
anything published after the archive was amassed would still motivate a subscription For many journals, JSTOR doesn't have recent content available anyway; Universities typically subscribe to publishers to get electronic access to recent content while relying on JSTOR for access to older content. Why should we care if JSTOR goes out of business because an archive is published? It doesn't matter whether you care or no…
"the law cares" ...and the law is wrong. It is wrong, because it is no longer serving the interests of the people governed by it. The entire basis for the US legal system is that laws serve the interest of the people, not that laws are handed down from above or that the law itself has any moral or ethical justification. If society's interests are no longer served by a law -- and it is hard to argue that in the case o…
Your proposal is unconstitutional. "Takings" must be compensated or you run into 5th amendment issues.
If you want a compromise, how about this: exclude those articles for which the research was paid for with tax dollars from copyright.
At my school, I owned the copyright to anything I published unless I used school resources. Even if I published while being funded by an DARPA grant. Moreover, school funding was split evenly between tuition, federal government grants, and private grants. How can you justify forcing people to give up copyright when the public only paid for one third of the research?
They become the targets of congressional investigations
But that doesn't change the law. In fact, none of the proposals we've seen in response to Swartz's suicide involve copyright changes. Copyright law isn't going to change at all.
Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
But that's part of the problem. US Citizens have a right to a trial by jury. It's one of the basic rights. If the prosecutor is abusing their power to deny that right there is something fundamentally wrong. Trying to throw every possible crime at someone no matter how tenuous in order to extort a plea bargain or get just one to stick to improve your prosecution record is an obvious distortion of the original intent o…
> Trying to throw every possible crime at someone no matter how tenuous in order to extort a plea bargain or get just one to stick to improve your prosecution record is an obvious distortion of the original intent of the system. Except that a grand jury has to sustain that the charges are at least "better than tenuous". Once the case is resolved one way or the other the defendant can't be tried for it again (Constitu…
What the heck. Forcing plea bargains on 96% percent of accused is just so we can be "expedient" for the other 4%? How does that make sense? Other countries get by just fine without plea bargains. Maybe we could get expedience by, you know, focusing prosecution effort on serious crimes or ones that actually have victims.
> Feel free to continue putting words into my mouth about "sanctioning miscarriage of justice" though.
You might want to read up on how plea bargaining is viewed in other countries. There are some that are of the opinion that plea bargains are "miscarriage of justice", and you seem to be defending it as a perfectly fine practice.
(edit: not sure what I think on plea bargains generally. But in this particular case it seems pretty ridiculous.)
Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Examples please.
* "Aaron was just violating TOS" * "They were pushing for 35/50 years in prison" * "This is just like using my neighbor's Wifi" * "They were trumping up charges to make an example of Aaron" (before you downvote, read Kerr's posts). * "They were aiming for harshest possible sentence" * There was also the very nice individual who doxxed Ortiz, who I'm sure is a fine representative of all that is right with hacktivism.…
As for depression, the federal case is the only part that is any of our business, and is the only part (that I know of) that provides some commonality of experience and results, as the feds can come after any of us for whatever three felonies a day they choose to do so. The prosecutors were helped by the PATRIOT act, after all, which covers more of us than Aaron's personal historical details and experiences. Aren't we allowed to talk about whether that's a troublesome umbrella to live under, and how it played out in a specific case?
You can't just say "every case is different" when the techniques can be the same between them. Forest for the trees.
Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The thing they were really trying to do was not have the trial, which is something I would expect them to do given the structure of the legal system. So basically, charge someone with something ridiculous, and then be offer a sweet sweet deal, such as "only 6 months jail time and confess to 15 felonies. Oh and if you want to go trial it will cost you and your family years of drama, all your savings, and risk 50 yea…
> So basically, charge someone with something ridiculous, and then be offer a sweet sweet deal, such as "only 6 months jail time and confess to 15 felonies. Oh and if you want to go trial it will cost you and your family years of drama, all your savings, and risk 50 years in prison". The charges weren't ridiculous. If Aaron wanted to avoid the trial he could simply have avoided repeatedly breaking into MIT's open net…
They were according to a retired federal judge: http://www.wbur.org/2013/01/16/gertner-criticizes-ortiz-swar...
from the article:
"She says she was troubled by much of what she learned and saw from the bench before leaving in 2011. And she says Ortiz should not have prosecuted Swartz." ... When asked if she was referring to the bad judgement of Carmen Ortiz, Gertner responded, “That’s right.”
Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out
#190Over the past several weeks, I've been completely numbed by all the outrage and media this event is generating. If I was a well known hacktivist and saw what has transpired here, it makes it look like being a martyr for your cause is considerably more beneficial than simply lawyering up and going through a trial.