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Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

harpers.org

41–50 of 270 posts

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#41
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, to avoid labeling the JSTOR downloads as a hack, which has different connotations for Harpers' readers and the public in general as it does here.

It definitely wasn't a "hack", though I wouldn't call it a prank either.

Call it a peaceful, selfless and courageous act of civil disobedience.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#42
post #35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-one got hurt. No damage was done. If I have to chose between "prank" or "federal crime" I'm going with prank. 'Pranks' have a history in political activism - see La Barbe or Pussy Riot or others.

> No-one got hurt. No damage was done. If a burglar is sneaking out of a house with a sack of stolen goods, and the police catch him and return everything to the owner, you'd still consider that a crime, right? If so, then you agree that situations where nobody is hurt and no permanent damage done can still be crimes.

No.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#43
post #35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-one got hurt. No damage was done. If I have to chose between "prank" or "federal crime" I'm going with prank. 'Pranks' have a history in political activism - see La Barbe or Pussy Riot or others.

> No-one got hurt. No damage was done. If a burglar is sneaking out of a house with a sack of stolen goods, and the police catch him and return everything to the owner, you'd still consider that a crime, right? If so, then you agree that situations where nobody is hurt and no permanent damage done can still be crimes.

If a user gets caught leaving a library with photocopies of public, published documents, would you consider that a crime too?

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#44
post #35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-one got hurt. No damage was done. If I have to chose between "prank" or "federal crime" I'm going with prank. 'Pranks' have a history in political activism - see La Barbe or Pussy Riot or others.

> No-one got hurt. No damage was done. If a burglar is sneaking out of a house with a sack of stolen goods, and the police catch him and return everything to the owner, you'd still consider that a crime, right? If so, then you agree that situations where nobody is hurt and no permanent damage done can still be crimes.

So many holes with your analogy. Rather than wasting my time explaining to you why it is wrong, I rather just tell you that you are showing extreme stupidity.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#45
post #6

I agree with the sentiment here, but some of the specific claims are certainly wince-worthy. College prank? Greatest prodigy of his generation? Little to no commercial value? All those claims are a lot more complicated than that! Not to mention it makes it sound like Ortiz was cooking this all up behind closed doors and everyone else was shocked! shocked! to realize how the "prosecutorial misconduct" had gotten out o…

This is probably the most worrying issue with this article. It places the blame on two individuals who are characterized as out of control instead of a system that is out of control. The entire system needs to be held accountable and corrected and those highlighted as having benefited their careers through this widespread misconduct should be individually held accountable just like individuals were held accountable a…

Ortiz specifically has brought other cases that have made me furious. Check out this one where she is trying to seize a family owned budget motel. There is no complaint whatsoever against the owner, but about once every other year the cops bust some low-level drug deal. The motel is paid-off and owned by the son of the founder and is worth 1.5 million, therefore she saw an easy civil forfeiture target. She is out of control and not helping the people of Massachusetts.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011...

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#46
If only it didn't take a suicide to reach this point where there is finally a conversation and criticism of prosecutorial overreach and looking at the human side of the equation.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that "don't treat the symptoms! treat the root cause!" is a common, almost unassailable sentiment, but lately I've been thinking there are problems with it. In order for it to be completely ineffective to "treat the symptom", it rests on the assumption that successfully treating the symptom will have zero effect on the cause behind it. A good example of that is taking pain meds to mask the pain of a knee injur…

I agree with your point, but treating the symptom must be done in such a way that the problem is still seen to be a problem. Another case in point was when the banking collapse hit, 'leaders' blamed things like 'excess greed' and so on, and dodged the real problem (IMHO). I'm afraid of throwing Ortiz to the wolves, washing our hands and saying, "Well, that's that."

This could have a somewhat chilling effect on other prosecutors although obviously only in cases against people who are somewhat popular or at least have the potential to become so. Poor people without outspoken friends would still get screwed. And the incentives for the prosecutors to "score big" would still remain.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably the most worrying issue with this article. It places the blame on two individuals who are characterized as out of control instead of a system that is out of control. The entire system needs to be held accountable and corrected and those highlighted as having benefited their careers through this widespread misconduct should be individually held accountable just like individuals were held accountable a…

Mother Theresa once said that when she looked upon the many she could do nothing, but when she focused on the one, she could do something. The same applies here. Someone needs to be held accountable. Change needs to start somewhere.

I'm not sure Mother Theresa is a good example for anything, but regarding the general argument you are making here:

There is a huge difference between helping one person (decreasing the general suffering by a tiny but attainable amount) and making one person an example (hoping this changes the status quo somehow).

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