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Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

harpers.org

21–30 of 270 posts

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#21
post #6

I agree with the sentiment here, but some of the specific claims are certainly wince-worthy. College prank? Greatest prodigy of his generation? Little to no commercial value? All those claims are a lot more complicated than that! Not to mention it makes it sound like Ortiz was cooking this all up behind closed doors and everyone else was shocked! shocked! to realize how the "prosecutorial misconduct" had gotten out o…

> Little to no commercial value?

Have you ever tried to sell a diamon, err, scholarly article?

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#22
post #21
post #6

I agree with the sentiment here, but some of the specific claims are certainly wince-worthy. College prank? Greatest prodigy of his generation? Little to no commercial value? All those claims are a lot more complicated than that! Not to mention it makes it sound like Ortiz was cooking this all up behind closed doors and everyone else was shocked! shocked! to realize how the "prosecutorial misconduct" had gotten out o…

> Little to no commercial value? Have you ever tried to sell a diamon, err, scholarly article?

Rightly or wrongly, Elsevier makes a pretty decent business out of it.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#23
post #21
post #6

I agree with the sentiment here, but some of the specific claims are certainly wince-worthy. College prank? Greatest prodigy of his generation? Little to no commercial value? All those claims are a lot more complicated than that! Not to mention it makes it sound like Ortiz was cooking this all up behind closed doors and everyone else was shocked! shocked! to realize how the "prosecutorial misconduct" had gotten out o…

> Little to no commercial value? Have you ever tried to sell a diamon, err, scholarly article?

Elsevier et al have done very well selling articles bundled as journal subscriptions. Claiming articles have no commercial value while at the same time railing against publishers is cognitive dissonance at its finest.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#24
post #17

This is a very intelligent, informed summary of the mounting case against the prosecutors. The author minces no words when describing Ortiz' and Heymann's strategy of charging Swartz with a battery of preposterous charges with the express intent of making any action except accepting a plea bargain (and thereby pleading guilty to all charges) the only reasonable approach: "[T]hey assumed that the risk of their success…

This. While Ortiz will be the convenient (and rightful, I suppose) scapegoat in this instance, she's a symptom of the problem and not the cause. There are far more fundamental problems with the DoJ, and until they're addressed (time and cost of mounting a defence, overly aggressive prosecutions, lack of oversight and discretion), nothing will change.

I know that "don't treat the symptoms! treat the root cause!" is a common, almost unassailable sentiment, but lately I've been thinking there are problems with it.

In order for it to be completely ineffective to "treat the symptom", it rests on the assumption that successfully treating the symptom will have zero effect on the cause behind it.

A good example of that is taking pain meds to mask the pain of a knee injury. So then you go and run on it, and it makes the knee injury worse. You treated the symptom, and nothing changed.

But there are definitely examples where treating the symptom does help. For instance, someone is temporarily depressed because of a unresolved situation in their lives. And yet, they cannot address the situation because the depression is in the way. So, they take an anti-depressant, and then maybe they can resolve their root cause, and then maybe they can go off the anti-depressant.

Someone like an Ortiz, yes, is a symptom of a deeper problem. But I'm not convinced it is like the pain in a knee, where treating it will make zero difference. A bum knee isn't exacerbated by the pain. But the system may be exacerbated by Ortiz. A bum knee doesn't become a bit less bum from witnessing the taking of a pain med. But if the system recognizes an Ortiz downfall and receives a data point of what "going to far" is, then maybe that would have an effect.

Probably not a sufficient effect, probably not enough, but I'm just pointing out that the fact that Ortiz is a symptom, is not, by itself, sufficient reason to believe that "nothing will change". Also not sufficient reason to believe that the symptom should not be treated.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#25
post #23
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Little to no commercial value? Have you ever tried to sell a diamon, err, scholarly article?

Elsevier et al have done very well selling articles bundled as journal subscriptions. Claiming articles have no commercial value while at the same time railing against publishers is cognitive dissonance at its finest.

His point is that the scholarly articles (like diamonds) can be easily tracked, and therefore determined if illegally sold or not. Since legitimate buyers - University professors, etc - want to be sure they are on the up and up, the won't purchase illegally obtained goods. Therefore, there would have been no buyers for the articles "stolen".

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#26
> Heymann responded by saying “Fine, we’ll lock him up.”

Cruel and barbaric. This comment is horrifying.

Many people commit suicide in prison. Being under suicide watch reduces, but does not eliminate, the risk. (I know someone who was under "level 2 observation" (a member of staff within arms reach at all times) in a MH hospital. They managed to self harm so severely they needed to be transported to a general hospital for several surgeries.)

America sends many people to prison. America has awful mental health care. The care for people with mental health problems is so awful that prisons are often the largest providers of mental health treatment.

"Prisons are the largest providers of mental health treatment" should be a statement that we should only read in dystopian science fiction.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#27
post #6

I agree with the sentiment here, but some of the specific claims are certainly wince-worthy. College prank? Greatest prodigy of his generation? Little to no commercial value? All those claims are a lot more complicated than that! Not to mention it makes it sound like Ortiz was cooking this all up behind closed doors and everyone else was shocked! shocked! to realize how the "prosecutorial misconduct" had gotten out o…

This is probably the most worrying issue with this article. It places the blame on two individuals who are characterized as out of control instead of a system that is out of control. The entire system needs to be held accountable and corrected and those highlighted as having benefited their careers through this widespread misconduct should be individually held accountable just like individuals were held accountable a…

Mother Theresa once said that when she looked upon the many she could do nothing, but when she focused on the one, she could do something.

The same applies here. Someone needs to be held accountable. Change needs to start somewhere.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#28
post #3

Why do they call it a prank? My impression is what was nothing of the sort.

No-one got hurt. No damage was done. If I have to chose between "prank" or "federal crime" I'm going with prank.

'Pranks' have a history in political activism - see La Barbe or Pussy Riot or others.

Re: Carmen Ortiz Strikes Out

#30
post #5

"Her prospects look grim. Rep. Darrell Issa (R., Calif.)"... And that's when everyone should stop reading. Issa is a tea party loon.

Issa is corrupt as hell. I mean, he has a business empire that he runs from a different part of the floor on which he has his CA office. Even by the shady standards of Congress, this is pushing it. But he was on the right side of SOPA/PIPA, and he was there before it was the safe, obvious place to be. He's got brass and he's very aggressive. If I were Ortiz, I'd take him seriously.
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