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The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

mrmoneymustache.com

101–110 of 246 posts

Re: The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

#101
post #29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author has a kid. Just be careful that by retirement he doesn't mean "stop the work and do nothing". In the author's view retirement means financial independence - the point in life where you don't need to work anymore but you work for your own pleasure (or you work on what you really like to do).

yep, if I'm not mistaken he has an article named "first retire.. then get rich" where he mentions learning carpentry or something like that and making even more money, even tho he wouldn't need it

He has another article where he mentions that since he refused to remove the word "badassity" from his blog, the credit card companies revoked his affiliate agreement, costing him something like 800 dollars a month in blog revenues. But apparently this wasn't a big deal.

Re: The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

#102
post #3

MrMoneyMustache (MMM) has a sound philosophy of life based on his experience and on Stoic literature. After reading his blog (and I mean all his articles from 2011) I've stopped buying myself a new computer every six months or so.

Damn man, I've been averaging every 6 years... I'd say I won't do that anymore (it sucked in the past, though clearly not enough to annoy me into purchase), but it actually seems easier to do that these days without missing out on all the games. 6 is still pushing it though, but 4 is very doable, barring another shader-engine-arms-race type of situation (I'm two years in and not feeling any obsolescence).

If it's your hobby though......

Re: The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

#103
post #65
post #52

MMM has a philosophy that is mathematically sound, and might even work for some people. Unfortunately, it's proven to fail for just about everyone (the spend less, save more advice has been around since the industrial revolution, and it isn't working to well: the average American has $16k in credit card debt). The reason it fails is because it ignores basic psychology. The key quote in this article is: >>But simply c…

At the heart of it your quarrel with his program is that people have no willpower to change? I mean, you're very right in that we have a horrible track record but, in your opinion, is the advice sound should someone be able to adjust their lifestyle?

Of course people can change their lifestyle. I have no doubt that MMM and the extreme early retirement guy, and some of the devotees of those blogs, have done exactly that.

That doesn't mean extreme frugality is the first thing people should focus on though. People have limited willpower. Using it to cut out $20/week worth of lattes or $100/month worth of cable just isn't the best use of it, unless you've already covered the more important things. As I've tried to illustrate above, focusing on the wrong things (and failing), can be very counter-productive. Personally, I think your limited willpower is almost always better spent adding to or honing the skills that will allow you to produce more.

Re: The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

#104

>If you save a reasonable percentage of your take-home pay, like 50%, and live on the remaining 50%, you’ll be Ready to Rock (aka “financially independent”) in a reasonable number of years – about 16 according to this chart In what universe is saving half your paycheck a reasonable percentage?

In the blog author's. He makes a pretty compelling case for it - I recommend reading through more of the blog.

Re: The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

#105
post #52

MMM has a philosophy that is mathematically sound, and might even work for some people. Unfortunately, it's proven to fail for just about everyone (the spend less, save more advice has been around since the industrial revolution, and it isn't working to well: the average American has $16k in credit card debt). The reason it fails is because it ignores basic psychology. The key quote in this article is: >>But simply c…

Yours is a very pessimistic view. You have no faith in your fellow human beings. There are a lot of smart enough people out there with sufficient will power to make these changes in their life if only they have the education and awareness of the opportunities. Sometimes all it takes is seeing the impact these changes have.

One of the best quotes I have seen about finances is this:

  Poor people spend what they have and invest the rest.
  Rich people invest what they have and spend the rest.
I've unwittingly been following this advice for a long time. When I save up enough money, I buy a HOUSE. An entire house I'm not just talking down payment. I have 5 houses now. I rent them out. I flip them. I live in them. Did you know you can buy an entire house for less than $5,000? A lot of people don't. I think those that buy houses retail or rent are silly. You think people who try to convince others that giving up coffee works are silly. To each his own. Why buy stocks and bonds when you can buy a house that pays $500/mo rent on a $5000 purchase?

Most people think I'm insane when I say that kind of thing, but it happens and it works. It takes experience, research, and time. It takes dedication and will. Strength of character and determination. Those are the characteristics that are lacking in our population right now and unfortunately those things aren't being taught. Those are the things needed to launch a startup, build wealth, and pay off credit card debt. They are also what is needed to give up coffee at Starbucks, so start with the coffee and you'll build better people for the long run -- that's what's important.

  > There's no medium ever invented that does this better than television.
I internet is better for me, but I get your point.

  > They want coffee, and buying one at the starbucks next
  > to work is a lot easier and tastier than brewing it 
  > yourself.
If Starbucks is tastier and easier than your home brew, you're doing it wrong.

  > automate your finances
If you think automating your finances is easier than not getting a coffee at starbucks -- well, I disagree entirely. Most people can't even balance a checkbook.

  > purchase the bond/equity ratios that suit your age
Really? These are advanced investment concepts and it takes a lot of education to get there. Start first with not spending more than you make. I think that's the point of the article. Once you manage that, then start thinking about where to invest. You're putting the cart before the horse.

All these concepts can and are being learned by people all over the world. It just takes time. You have to crawl before you walk. Crawling out of the hole of debt is the first move. If you keep spending at starbucks and paying 20% interest while you're trying to get 6% on bonds (if you're lucky) then you're still losing money. The secret to building wealth is first and foremost to stop losing money.

Re: The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

#106
post #52

MMM has a philosophy that is mathematically sound, and might even work for some people. Unfortunately, it's proven to fail for just about everyone (the spend less, save more advice has been around since the industrial revolution, and it isn't working to well: the average American has $16k in credit card debt). The reason it fails is because it ignores basic psychology. The key quote in this article is: >>But simply c…

Reminds me of a great article I saw posted on HN a few months ago. I wish I could remember where it was, but it basically said "You'll never get anywhere by skipping coffee and bringing lunch to work, focus on the big gains like increasing your salary by 30% instead". The frugal lifestyle BS most likely does more harm than good for the average person. People shouldn't be sacrificing quality of life because they're wo…

MMM's main thesis is that the quality of life bit takes care of itself through hedonic adaption [1]. If you can make it to that point.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

Re: The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

#107
post #83
post #52

MMM has a philosophy that is mathematically sound, and might even work for some people. Unfortunately, it's proven to fail for just about everyone (the spend less, save more advice has been around since the industrial revolution, and it isn't working to well: the average American has $16k in credit card debt). The reason it fails is because it ignores basic psychology. The key quote in this article is: >>But simply c…

Ramit Sethi's advice on this really rang true with me "Stop saving on lattes, that doesn't matter, negotiate a $5k+ per year pay increase instead"

Why wouldn't you do both?

Re: The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

#108
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've stopped buying myself a new computer every six months or so. Err.. why would you do that to start with? Even my hardcore gaming friends can make machines last for years.

For the same reason people buy $5 lattes. People are people. That said, I question a life so stoic it has absolutely no frivolousness. Sounds a little boring.

I'm not sure stoicism is about denying yourself, it's more about appreciating what you have whilst not being too attached to it.

Re: The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

#109
post #33
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize you've disproved your own point, right? >>This is vitally important because it means it's impossible for a significant percentage of people to retire early unless the remaining workforce becomes correspondingly more productive ... >>Arguably, that is already happening even without additional early retirees, simply because the increased average life expectancy (and thus the time people spend in retireme…

I haven't disproved my main point at all (returns from investment are ultimately funded by the working population) - just perhaps not given the proper weight to the caveat about increased productivity when talking about the effects. However, fact is that most people's incomes have stagnated or decreased. The increased productivity is not quite enough to compensate for the increasing number of retirees and/or super ri…

>most people's incomes have stagnated or decreased

We stopped the high taxes on the rich, let the minimum wage fall in real terms, and made several other policy decisions which have caused the shift to the rich.

It's not retirees pulling us down (except perhaps arguably in the last week or two or life, drumming up huge medical bills), it's rent seeking.

Re: The Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

#110
post #95

Am I the only one that feels like I'd rather be making money and enjoying myself at the same time, rather than stressing out about putting 50% of my income towards retirement?

If you set up automatic 401k deposits and direct deposit a percentage of your paycheck to Vanguard, you won't stress out about it at all. You'll just see a different number on your take-home paycheck, get used it it quickly, and go on enjoying yourself without stressing out.

Or at least that's my theory - I'm setting up that direct deposit situation today, and I'm planning on setting the percentage a lot higher than I would have before reading this article.

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