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The Problem with Kickstarter

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Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#21

Post by DanBC2 »

robomartin wrote: post #16

I would suggest respectfully engaging the Kickstarter folks in a discussion about your project. I had a hardware project rejected in the same manner, except I did not leave it at that. I engaged the KS staff, stated my case, qualifications, and had a general discussion about the project. A few days later they authorized it. In fact, I have more than one approved project in the pipeline. I have found them to be nothin…

Have you written any blog posts about the process? I'm sure many people would be interested in what happens.

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#22

Post by DanBC2 »

dpryan wrote: post #15
pc86 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/Backers/"People who just pre-ordered something that doesn't exist yet" I thought the whole point of Kickstarter was to "kickstart" your project with an infusion of cash allowing you to quit your job/outsource more work/whatever to get to market?

Yes - but it doesn't work for hardware. It leads to projects failing to deliver on their expectations. Failures hurt the Kickstarter brand. They know that. Which is why they're moving away from hardware. The "kickstart" part is what's missing with the selfstarter approach. We're funded so we didn't have this problem. Maybe a new model could be a hybrid of incubator and crowdfunding. You apply with an idea. The incuba…

Hardware incubator sounds like a really good idea.

Many people are not interested in funding hardware projects at all - hardware just has a lousy reputation.

But having a hardware incubator means you concentrate expertise in all the stuff that's traditionally thought to be hard about hardware. Things like suppliers and distribution and stock control and sub-contracting etc etc.

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#23

Post by ChuckMcM »

Loved that article, it is an excellently crafted critique of Kickstarter (general interest) which is melded to a call to action for their rejected Kickstarter (Bytelight). So at one level it reads "Kickstarter rejected us, we're bummed we don't have all their eyeballs, we used the Lockitron example to try to fund our product design."

When I saw Kickstarter I had the same feeling I had about Ebay (although initially Ebay weathered its risk storm) which was given the larger audience for the product (Ebay occasional sales, Kickstarter small investment) you could get better results than the customer could on their own. And people abused EBay too (selling stolen or counterfeit goods, ripping off buyers when nothing was shipped).

Perhaps there is a 'Craigslist' model of funding referral service to achieve the wide reach but stay hands off enough to keep out of the lawsuits. Ebay's solution to monetizing that was both a listing fee and a selling fee, something Kickstarter could also do (assuming it isn't patented).

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#24

Post by ollysb »

pdx wrote: post #18

Hardware is expensive. Plastic injection tooling, PCB fabrication, PCB assembly, component purchases, FCC and EU and UL testing and certifications. Something like Kickstarter makes it possible for an engineer, such as myself, who does not have $200K in the bank, to use the skills I use every day for large companies, and create something new in the world. For somebody to suggest that the one endeavor that needs Kickst…

Given the amount of experience and equipment required for hardware projects perhaps there's room for a hardware incubator?

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#25

Post by bryanlarsen »

pdx wrote: post #18

Hardware is expensive. Plastic injection tooling, PCB fabrication, PCB assembly, component purchases, FCC and EU and UL testing and certifications. Something like Kickstarter makes it possible for an engineer, such as myself, who does not have $200K in the bank, to use the skills I use every day for large companies, and create something new in the world. For somebody to suggest that the one endeavor that needs Kickst…

A pledge to buy something can be converted into money. In traditional industries it's quite common to get bank loans against accounts receivable and/or outstanding purchase orders.

Without a history of delivering product, a bank won't give you a loan against pledges (aka PO's), but there certainly should be lots of people who would give you a loan or buy equity.

If you can say to a VC "I've got a million dollars worth of orders, I need $500K to build them", you've got a much stronger story when talking to VC's than most do.

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#26

Post by Bradosaur »

ollysb wrote: post #24
pdx wrote: post #18

Hardware is expensive. Plastic injection tooling, PCB fabrication, PCB assembly, component purchases, FCC and EU and UL testing and certifications. Something like Kickstarter makes it possible for an engineer, such as myself, who does not have $200K in the bank, to use the skills I use every day for large companies, and create something new in the world. For somebody to suggest that the one endeavor that needs Kickst…

Given the amount of experience and equipment required for hardware projects perhaps there's room for a hardware incubator?

There are hardware incubators. Lemnos Labs is the one I can think of off-hand.

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#27

Post by Bradosaur »

robomartin wrote: post #16

I would suggest respectfully engaging the Kickstarter folks in a discussion about your project. I had a hardware project rejected in the same manner, except I did not leave it at that. I engaged the KS staff, stated my case, qualifications, and had a general discussion about the project. A few days later they authorized it. In fact, I have more than one approved project in the pipeline. I have found them to be nothin…

How did you engage them? Do you know someone? When I got rejected I just got a form with a few characters to explain why I wasn't violating the rules (they did not say which rule I was violating).

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#29

Post by dinkumthinkum »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #25
pdx wrote: post #18

Hardware is expensive. Plastic injection tooling, PCB fabrication, PCB assembly, component purchases, FCC and EU and UL testing and certifications. Something like Kickstarter makes it possible for an engineer, such as myself, who does not have $200K in the bank, to use the skills I use every day for large companies, and create something new in the world. For somebody to suggest that the one endeavor that needs Kickst…

A pledge to buy something can be converted into money. In traditional industries it's quite common to get bank loans against accounts receivable and/or outstanding purchase orders. Without a history of delivering product, a bank won't give you a loan against pledges (aka PO's), but there certainly should be lots of people who would give you a loan or buy equity. If you can say to a VC "I've got a million dollars wort…

You really think a bank would give loans against Kickstarter agreements to purchase something?

Re: The Problem with Kickstarter

#30

Post by robomartin »

Bradosaur wrote: post #27
robomartin wrote: post #16

I would suggest respectfully engaging the Kickstarter folks in a discussion about your project. I had a hardware project rejected in the same manner, except I did not leave it at that. I engaged the KS staff, stated my case, qualifications, and had a general discussion about the project. A few days later they authorized it. In fact, I have more than one approved project in the pipeline. I have found them to be nothin…

How did you engage them? Do you know someone? When I got rejected I just got a form with a few characters to explain why I wasn't violating the rules (they did not say which rule I was violating).

I need to look through my email to reconstruct it. I'm in meetings most of the rest of the day. I'll try to get to it tonight.
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