Introducing HelloSign for Gmail • Hacker News Board

Re: Introducing HelloSign for Gmail

#111

Post by nostromo » Wed, Jan 16, 2013, 11:33 PM UTC

ableal wrote: post #97

brk wrote: post #42

I'll be honest, I'm tired of "free". I'd rather see some definitive information under the Pricing section. I'm tired of getting "invested" in web apps that are free, and then having them pivot dramatically or go under. This is less of an issue for small things, but anything that I'm going to incorporate into my business workflow needs to have at least some semblance of a business plan apparent. Looks neat, I'll be ha…

This seems a nice article on pricing strategies: http://onstartups.com/tabid/3339/bid/37737/Secrets-Of-Freemi... Strangely, as a submission here (not by me), it got killed yesterday. I looked it over when it came up, and when I went to join my vote to the dozen or so it had gathered, it was dead ...

It's still alive: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5060367

Just seems to have been modded down or something: http://hnrankings.info/5060367/

Re: Introducing HelloSign for Gmail

#112

Post by eric-hu » Wed, Jan 16, 2013, 11:36 PM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #70

davidjgraph wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does something need to be provider for for free before you trust that it'll stay that way? This is an attitude we're trying to overcome with our model.

How long does something need to be provider for for free before you trust that it'll stay that way? My personal answer: never. Google has killed free apps that had had lots of users for years. If Google can't guarantee that a free app will stay free and available, nobody can.

I understand this argument, and I adhere to it somewhat, but I still use gmail. It's just so much more usable (to me) than any other webmail service I've used.

Yes, I am taking on a potentially bad burn of Google ever axes gmail or cuts some important features (it's happened to me with Hotmail before), but I'm willing to take that risk because of the gmail feature set.

At some point, Hotmail decided to delete sent/received email older than some arbitrary amount. An important personal conversation to me was deleted.

Re: Introducing HelloSign for Gmail

#113

Post by guiseppecalzone » Wed, Jan 16, 2013, 11:37 PM UTC

ef4 wrote: post #47

I'm still looking forward to when HelloFax has an API. My existing providers have terrible APIs and pretty bad reliability.

Joseph here, cofounder of HelloSign.

We actually have an API live for HelloSign. Is that what you were looking for?

http://www.hellosign.com/info/api

If so, we'd love to hear what you think.

Re: Introducing HelloSign for Gmail

#114

Post by quellhorst » Wed, Jan 16, 2013, 11:41 PM UTC

I use PDFPen instead to sign PDFs by dragging and dropping a signature into the .pdf and saving it. For sending contracts out I use RightSignature which saves a ton of time.

Re: Introducing HelloSign for Gmail

#115

Post by nicolas314 » Wed, Jan 16, 2013, 11:43 PM UTC

negativity wrote: post #66

Why, why, WHY does no one even question the idea of graphic signatures to begin with? This thing where we scan a piece of paper or paste in a little image has always smacked of forgery to me anyway? All I need is one image of your signature, and I can sign for you anywhere I want. It's like when they hand out rubber stamps for secretaries to use. It's like somewhere along the line, wherever you see hand-written signa…

I am totally baffled that copy/pasting an image can be considered legally binding in 2013. Digital signatures with x.509 certificates have existed for ages now and these are rightfully legally binding anywhere in Europe.

Please have a look at European laws about digital signature!

Re: Introducing HelloSign for Gmail

#116

Post by driverdan » Thu, Jan 17, 2013, 12:05 AM UTC

Any plans on adding cryptographically signed PDF support? While this is nicely convenient I'd rather cryptographically sign stuff in Acrobat than just stick an image of my signature on it.

Re: Introducing HelloSign for Gmail

#117

Post by zmmmmm » Thu, Jan 17, 2013, 12:37 AM UTC

negativity wrote: post #66

Why, why, WHY does no one even question the idea of graphic signatures to begin with? This thing where we scan a piece of paper or paste in a little image has always smacked of forgery to me anyway? All I need is one image of your signature, and I can sign for you anywhere I want. It's like when they hand out rubber stamps for secretaries to use. It's like somewhere along the line, wherever you see hand-written signa…

100% agree.

This is almost like granting power of attorney to anyone who hacks your Gmail account, making the threshold for controlling your whole existence your Gmail password (or even your Gmail session if you stay logged in and don't 100% physically secure your computer every time you walk away from it). The video shows no extra authentication step when the signing occurs, which is particularly egregious.

a) If it's legally binding like a real signature then I can't do it because it's far too risky

b) If it's not legally binding like a real signature then it's useless

The litmus test is what happens when a dispute arises in court over one of these signatures. If the defense "Somebody accessed my computer while it was logged in and fraudulently signed" is accepted then this thing is blown out of the water. No longer can the hand writing expert come in and testify whether it is in fact your writing. No longer will the fact that the signature is 100% identical to another document that you signed in the past be evidence that the signature was copied. All of the security features of "real" signatures are gone.

Re: Introducing HelloSign for Gmail

#118

Post by samaparicio » Thu, Jan 17, 2013, 1:12 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #101

I've been using the sign feature in Preview on Mac for a while now and love it. I no longer use a printer. Nice to see someone remove the download, save, and attach step. Every time I use Preview, I can't help but feel like the entire idea of a signature is archaic and strange. In effect, I'm forging my own signature with Preview, and nobody cares. While I'm at it, I wish I could not only "sign" the document, but sig…

Just to point out that when you send a PDF document signed with Preview, I can open that document, extract your signature, and paste it in any other PDF that I want to. For me, this makes it too dangerous to use.

Re: Introducing HelloSign for Gmail

#119

Post by larrybolt » Thu, Jan 17, 2013, 1:26 AM UTC

arno_u_loginlux wrote: post #87

Some worldwide community already invented a stable and maintained, production-compatible, free and open source cryptographic digital signature, with public-key infrastructure & certificate authority ? GPG/PGP & Web of trust concepts are so 2000-and-late! Let's SSAS all that open stuff & fuck the market with another new (temporary) "free" app.

I agree! Long ago it was possible to determine whenever a signature was genuine, but these sort of "digital signatures" don't provide any level of security, verification or anything alike. Even signing using an e-id and card-reader would be a better way to sign a document really.

Re: Introducing HelloSign for Gmail

#120

Post by thefreeman » Thu, Jan 17, 2013, 1:34 AM UTC

zende wrote: post #44

brk wrote: post #42

I'll be honest, I'm tired of "free". I'd rather see some definitive information under the Pricing section. I'm tired of getting "invested" in web apps that are free, and then having them pivot dramatically or go under. This is less of an issue for small things, but anything that I'm going to incorporate into my business workflow needs to have at least some semblance of a business plan apparent. Looks neat, I'll be ha…

You can always use HelloFax (same company) if you're interested in paying ;-). I get what you're saying though. B2B is not like building a consumer app. I'd rather pay as long as it's reasonable.

Not that you necessarily said otherwise, but just wanted to mention that I could definitely see this being used by individuals as well. I have used a similar service (echosign) in the past to sign apartment leases, etc. This seems like it may be targeting that crowd as well with "smart phone integration" and other features.