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Why I just joined the NRA

townhall.com

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Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#11

Post by johng »

I'm surprised this type of stuff hasn't gotten more attention here on HN. What some politicians are proposing right now is an outright snub of the 2nd amendment. I will side with the forefathers who made this counter 100 out of 100 times in relation to any recent politicians.

No one ever said that Freedom was easy or that it didn't come at a cost. It does and always will. But maintaining freedom and our core principles as laid out long ago should be a goal we never stop working towards. This seems like a huge step backwards.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#12

Post by johng »

Steko wrote: post #9
ltcoleman wrote: post #4

I'm not completely convinced all of his facts are backed up, but I do agree with his sentiments. Gun control will never be an answer to violent crime, far too easy to obtain illegally. I remember my gun nut friends all had illegal assault rifles during the Clinton ban. I agree that mental illness awareness is a much better place to spend the $500 million Obama just asked for gun control. More government always fixes…

"far too easy to obtain illegally." Please go to Japan and obtain a gun illegally as proof of this claim. " I remember my gun nut friends all had illegal assault rifles during the Clinton ban." Bad regulation is proof that all regulation doesn't work! ... right?

Japan isn't the same as the United States. We don't want to be the same as Japan, because to do so would be to give up what this country was built on. We have always had firearms and our constitution says we SHOULD always have firearms.

Nevermind the fact that we have millions more guns in our country -- making guns illegal after they've hit such a penetration level would be impossible.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#13

Post by thisisdallas »

I agree that making something illegal won't make it go away and that is why I think all of the so called gun ban legislation is a front or cover for something else. I'm not talking about wacky conspiracy theories or a government military takeover but something along the lines of someone somewhere will greatly benefit from some sort of gun control legislation. I don't think it's "to protect Americans" but to pad the pocketbooks of politicians, appease lobbyist or some other sort of twisted expression of this recent uprise in government corruption.

The article mentions a staggering obvious truth, "Why would we rush to ban guns, when almost all of our mass murders and most of our violent crimes occur in places with the strictest gun control?" There is also the fact that the proposed gun control laws all talk about assault rifles. That's fine, go after assault rifles but don't overlook handguns too. Last year in Chicago, more people were killed by handguns than the total number of those killed in all of the mass shootings over the last decade. How can those proposing gun control ignore that? Chicago has some of the strictest gun control laws in the US yet it has one of the highest rates of murder in the US…most of which results from the use of handguns. Yet, assault rifles and high capacity magazines are the problem….

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#14

Post by Steko »

johng wrote: post #7
ltcoleman wrote: post #4

I'm not completely convinced all of his facts are backed up, but I do agree with his sentiments. Gun control will never be an answer to violent crime, far too easy to obtain illegally. I remember my gun nut friends all had illegal assault rifles during the Clinton ban. I agree that mental illness awareness is a much better place to spend the $500 million Obama just asked for gun control. More government always fixes…

If you are not convinced of his facts, check the relevant websites yourself. There's a great drill-down on the statistics in this video and you can go to the same (official) websites and pull the stats yourself: https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ooa98FHuaU0

Or you could look at the US and UK murder rate and conclude that gun control radically reduces murders even when one country is possibly more violent than another.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#15

Post by Steko »

ericcumbee wrote: post #6
phinnaeus wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in favor of gun regulation, but I disagree that the way to have less violence is to have more guns. I just wish people liked guns less.

12 guys killed 3000 people with nothing but box cutters. Obviously we need less boxcutters as well. I dont really think people that like guns are the problem though. I would not classify myself as someone that "likes" guns. On the other hand i know people that "like" guns, and it's not that they likes the power a gun has, but they certainly understand and respect it, and therefore take extra care. They like them beca…

"12 guys killed 3000 people with nothing but box cutters. Obviously we need less boxcutters as well."

Pretty sure they used large aircraft to kill people and no one is crying tyranny over the idea that large aircraft need a bunch of regulations to ensure public safety.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#16

Post by retube »

johng wrote: post #11

I'm surprised this type of stuff hasn't gotten more attention here on HN. What some politicians are proposing right now is an outright snub of the 2nd amendment. I will side with the forefathers who made this counter 100 out of 100 times in relation to any recent politicians. No one ever said that Freedom was easy or that it didn't come at a cost. It does and always will. But maintaining freedom and our core principl…

> What some politicians are proposing right now is an outright snub of the 2nd amendment

So what? Maybe the 2nd amendment is wrong, or a bad idea, or a 200 year old proclamation that is no longer relevant in modern times? People's attachment to this clause is just... fundamentalist.

And why do people insist on equating gun ownership with freedom? You're not allowed to own bombs or missiles, does that also mean I am not free?

There's lots of things we're not free to do which actually makes us freer: not to steal, or house break, or kill people. I for one am glad my freedom is curtailed in this manner. It means i can live in a (largely) peaceful and safe society, and am free to go about my business with minimum threat to my existence or assets. And further adding to my sense of security is the knowledge that I am very unlikely to ever be threatened, injured or killed by a gun as almost no one owns one here - because they are illegal.

Everybody in Europe manages just fine without owning guns, what makes american's so special? why do you need to own a gun? (yeah sure, self defence, but if no one had them in the first place that wouldn't be necessary)

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#17

Post by Steko »

thisisdallas wrote: post #13

I agree that making something illegal won't make it go away and that is why I think all of the so called gun ban legislation is a front or cover for something else. I'm not talking about wacky conspiracy theories or a government military takeover but something along the lines of someone somewhere will greatly benefit from some sort of gun control legislation. I don't think it's "to protect Americans" but to pad the p…

"I think all of the so called gun ban legislation is a front or cover for something else..... someone somewhere will greatly benefit from some sort of gun control legislation.'

So you're saying that the universal outrage over all these children being murdered couldn't possibly lead to good faith attempts to reform society to prevent similar events? You're saying it's probably a front for ... something? That the powerful archery, knife and karate lobbies were just waiting for any pretext to get rid of guns so they can start raking in the bucks?

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#18

Post by kcima »

Steko wrote: post #8
ericcumbee wrote: post #2

I applied for my Georgia Firearms (Concealed Carry) Licence today. My problem with the idea of gun control is that it assumes making something illegal will make it go away(We have seen how well that worked with Drugs, and Prohibition) Sure its a bumper sticker slogan but there is some truth to the slogan that "If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns." To me the only truly effective way to neutralize crimi…

"My problem with the idea of gun control is that it assumes making something illegal will make it go away(We have seen how well that worked with Drugs, and Prohibition)" Maybe a better comparison is gun control in other countries. "Sure its a bumper sticker slogan but there is some truth to the slogan that "If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns."" So what, "some truth to it" is a shockingly low standard…

"England has a complete ban on guns. No UK citizen can carry a gun. Period. Not a one. Result? UK violent crime rate is 3 1/3 times higher than America. The FBI reports 386 violent crimes per 100,000 in the USA. The UK Home Office reports 1,361 violent crimes per 100,000 in England."

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#19

Post by johng »

retube wrote: post #16
johng wrote: post #11

I'm surprised this type of stuff hasn't gotten more attention here on HN. What some politicians are proposing right now is an outright snub of the 2nd amendment. I will side with the forefathers who made this counter 100 out of 100 times in relation to any recent politicians. No one ever said that Freedom was easy or that it didn't come at a cost. It does and always will. But maintaining freedom and our core principl…

> What some politicians are proposing right now is an outright snub of the 2nd amendment So what? Maybe the 2nd amendment is wrong, or a bad idea, or a 200 year old proclamation that is no longer relevant in modern times? People's attachment to this clause is just... fundamentalist. And why do people insist on equating gun ownership with freedom? You're not allowed to own bombs or missiles, does that also mean I am n…

What makes American's so special is the fact that we are a unique country. A country that was built on our core values, as they are laid out in our constitution of the united states that has guided us and has never steered us wrong.

We are the same country that came to the worlds aid (and europe, especially) during WW1 and WW2.

Our beliefs aren't perfect. They just happen to be less wrong then others, IMHO... and in the opinion of a large majority of our country.

If you can't understand why the right to keep and bear arms is an essential aspect of being american then you are short sighted and have refused to see how history repeats itself over and over throughout mankind.

I 100% believe Benjamin Franklin said it best when he said the following: "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

Once you start picking apart our constitution, little by little, you soon open up the flood gates for rights and liberties to be taken away much more easily.

They can already wire-tap without a warrant. Now they want the guns. This is how it starts...

First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

Lets modify the above...

First they came for the assault rifles, and I didn't speak out because I didn't own one.

Then they came for the bolt action rifles, and I didn't speak out because I didn't own one.

Then they came for the pistols, and I didn't speak out because I didn't own one.

Then they came for me, and there was no one left with the capabilities to defend me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

Having the ability to arm yourself and defend yourself and uprise against OUR OWN GOVERNMENT should the need arise is specifically why the 2nd amendment was written the way it was... and I believe they felt very strongly about this. It's #2 on the list after all.

When we try to outsmart the people that made our great country, we usually mess it up.

Just my 2c.

Re: Why I just joined the NRA

#20

Post by Steko »

kcima wrote: post #18
Steko wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My problem with the idea of gun control is that it assumes making something illegal will make it go away(We have seen how well that worked with Drugs, and Prohibition)" Maybe a better comparison is gun control in other countries. "Sure its a bumper sticker slogan but there is some truth to the slogan that "If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns."" So what, "some truth to it" is a shockingly low standard…

"England has a complete ban on guns. No UK citizen can carry a gun. Period. Not a one. Result? UK violent crime rate is 3 1/3 times higher than America. The FBI reports 386 violent crimes per 100,000 in the USA. The UK Home Office reports 1,361 violent crimes per 100,000 in England."

Those statistics are not apples to apples. Notably the UK started classifying common assault (no injury) as a violent crime which more than doubled the "violent crime" rate.

You might ask why the people who fed you this talking point used a clearly deceptive statistic instead of an obvious one like murder.

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