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Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

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Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#61

Post by BrokenPipe »

laumars wrote: post #49
jamesaguilar wrote: post #36

I can understand how people might expect different behavior in the Swartz case. But what in the behavior discussed in this article is other than exactly what you would expect? Of course she is going to prosecute a credit card thief who has stolen tens of thousands of cards. How does this stack up as added evidence against her?

RT is a Russian national news service. They're quite anti-US, anti-NATO, etc. I actually quite enjoy the RT TV station - they have some rather amusing reports. However, like all stations, they have their bias. So it's worth noting that their reports against the US should be taken with a pinch of salt (much like how I wouldn't trust any reports from Fox News).

RT is seemingly biased yes, mostly on the Russian issues. I think ALL reports from ANY news source should be taken with a pinch of salt, but if anything, you want to read about your nation from non national and possibly independent news outlets.

But how can you blame them for criticizing US foreign policy ? Informed people usually see the US foreign policy as very bulling, strong armed and imperialist, and rightly so IMHO.

And don't get me wrong, I like many aspects of the US and many people from the US, unfortunately is very hard to be informed and as such the administration is influenced by the few for the benefits of the few.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#62

Post by vidarh »

kule wrote: post #40
greghinch wrote: post #3

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/fire-assistant-us-...

This just feels like mob mentality to me. Someone messed up, albeit badly. I would guess the guy feels bad enough as it is without needing to get 25k people to kick him when he's down. EDIT: I guess what I'd really hope to have seen (not being a US citizen) is some petitions to get the laws/system changed rather than looking for someone to blame.

"Feeling badly" is not enough. If they make statements to the effect that they've understood and learned from the experience that prosecuting these types of cases in this manner is bad, then maybe. As it is, we have no reason to believe they won't do the same again, and again, if left unchecked.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#63

Post by jessaustin »

ars wrote: post #46
monsterix wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please 'know' before taking sides. It's easy to comment, and opine, than to know. Here are some insights from Wikipedia: US has had the highest incarceration rate in past decade [1]. Why so? Does it mean more percentage of citizens are lately turning into what one would qualify as a criminal, a thief or a murderer? Or otherwise. Quoting from Wikipedia: A. "The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of…

What does this have to do with what jamesaguilar posted? > No. Surely, something else is broken. Really? There are no other options you can think of? Perhaps the US is simply stricter? I quote from the article this image is from: "Still, it is the length of sentences that truly distinguishes American prison policy. Indeed, the mere number of sentences imposed here would not place the United States at the top of the i…

nor does it imprison more people

At any particular point in time, there is a greater percentage of the population in prison in the USA than there is in any other nation in the world. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. It is reasonable to generalize that to "the USA imprisons more people".

Nice non sequiturs with respect to graph scales and lead exposure, though! Our population hasn't been increasing exponentially: why would any population-based statistic be doing so, and why would we want to hide that fact if it were? Also, tetraethyl lead was used at some time in most countries, and indeed is still in common use in those that don't have strict environmental regulations. We still have the highest incarceration rate.

If you're brave enough to see the real explanation for these trends, take a look at this chart: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/exptyp.cfm

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#64

Post by vidarh »

btilly wrote: post #12
rprasad wrote: post #10

Two weeks after the Secret Service raided his house in conjunction with the investigation led by Heymann into the theft of tens of thousands of credit card numbers, James was found dead. Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. This other hacker (Jonathan James) didn't even wait until they pressed charges. It's not a ma…

Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. Citation needed. It makes perfect sense to me that a depressed person who has realized what trial is going to cost, and who does not believe that anyone is going to believe them, would commit suicide. An innocent person who BELIEVES that they WILL be believed probably reacts very…

> and who does not believe that anyone is going to believe them

I agree with you.

In "Goodbye to Shy", Leil Lowndes cites research that shows that even someone who is just shy will tend to interpret other peoples opinions of them and of interactions with them far more negatively than less shy people.

It takes very, very little to turn what would be an incredibly stressful situation to most people - innocent or not - and turn it into something substantially worse depending just on relatively benign personality traits.

Much less mental illnesses like depression that can be extremely severe.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#65

Post by jessaustin »

kule wrote: post #40
greghinch wrote: post #3

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/fire-assistant-us-...

This just feels like mob mentality to me. Someone messed up, albeit badly. I would guess the guy feels bad enough as it is without needing to get 25k people to kick him when he's down. EDIT: I guess what I'd really hope to have seen (not being a US citizen) is some petitions to get the laws/system changed rather than looking for someone to blame.

I would guess the guy feels bad enough as it is without needing to get 25k people to kick him when he's down.

If a federal prosecutor had ever in history allowed that consideration ("he feels bad enough as it is") to temper his zealous persecution of innocent people, then we might consider similar leniency for him. Since it has never happened, we don't need to worry about it.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#67

Post by laumars »

BrokenPipe wrote: post #61
laumars wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RT is a Russian national news service. They're quite anti-US, anti-NATO, etc. I actually quite enjoy the RT TV station - they have some rather amusing reports. However, like all stations, they have their bias. So it's worth noting that their reports against the US should be taken with a pinch of salt (much like how I wouldn't trust any reports from Fox News).

RT is seemingly biased yes, mostly on the Russian issues. I think ALL reports from ANY news source should be taken with a pinch of salt, but if anything, you want to read about your nation from non national and possibly independent news outlets. But how can you blame them for criticizing US foreign policy ? Informed people usually see the US foreign policy as very bulling, strong armed and imperialist, and rightly so…

    > I think ALL reports from ANY news source should be taken with a pinch of salt
I'd already said that: "However, like all stations, they have their bias."

    >  but if anything, you want to read about your nation from non national and possibly independent news outlets.
Which is why I follow RT ;)

    > But how can you blame them for criticizing US foreign policy ?
I wasn't.

I was only advising people about a bias. Which is only fair given the likelihood of myself being one of the few in this thread who actively follows RT - so other readers on here may not be familiar with their editorial style (and let's not forget that the commenter before me did ask why RT may have ran this particular story).

Plus, to be fair, if you followed RT yourself, then I'm sure you'd agree that they are very one sided (almost to the degree of Fox News - albeit delivered less like a cabaret!). Where as many other stations and publications (eg BBC News) are a lot more balanced. I'm not trying to imply that the BBC doesn't have their own biases as well - but they are less polarised by it. So it's often worth noting which reporters are more reputable than others (another example: any health scare published in by the Daily Mail has to be treated with a huge amount of skepticism as they have a long history of adding dramatised editorials, skipping over vital facts and misquoting scientific research).

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#68

Post by BrokenPipe »

laumars wrote: post #67
BrokenPipe wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RT is seemingly biased yes, mostly on the Russian issues. I think ALL reports from ANY news source should be taken with a pinch of salt, but if anything, you want to read about your nation from non national and possibly independent news outlets. But how can you blame them for criticizing US foreign policy ? Informed people usually see the US foreign policy as very bulling, strong armed and imperialist, and rightly so…

> I think ALL reports from ANY news source should be taken with a pinch of salt I'd already said that: "However, like all stations , they have their bias." > but if anything, you want to read about your nation from non national and possibly independent news outlets. Which is why I follow RT ;) > But how can you blame them for criticizing US foreign policy ? I wasn't. I was only advising people about a bias. Which is…

I follow RT sometimes, aljazeera and in fact any source of information on any topic that interests me. All in all, I think I agree with what you're saying. The best way to try to remove bias is merge the stories and take it from there.

Anyway, I think sometimes there is some truth in the daily mail, fox news, the sun and all that junk media and I wonder if the truth that gets published there is published there such that it can be discredited :P

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#69

Post by laumars »

BrokenPipe wrote: post #68
laumars wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think ALL reports from ANY news source should be taken with a pinch of salt I'd already said that: "However, like all stations , they have their bias." > but if anything, you want to read about your nation from non national and possibly independent news outlets. Which is why I follow RT ;) > But how can you blame them for criticizing US foreign policy ? I wasn't. I was only advising people about a bias. Which is…

I follow RT sometimes, aljazeera and in fact any source of information on any topic that interests me. All in all, I think I agree with what you're saying. The best way to try to remove bias is merge the stories and take it from there. Anyway, I think sometimes there is some truth in the daily mail, fox news, the sun and all that junk media and I wonder if the truth that gets published there is published there such t…

Craprags don't exist to discredit the truth. They exist to sell their version of the truth. Sometimes that means distorting reality a little, by promoting statistics that appear -to the uninformed- to support their argument. However sometimes their version of the truth can be served verbatim.

However sometimes, the truth is distorted simply because the reporter isn't educated on that subject. It's a common problem with articles on legal proceedings, and with science papers too (the reporting on the "faster than light" neutrino is one great example of the press not understanding their subject!)

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#70

Post by BrokenPipe »

laumars wrote: post #69
BrokenPipe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I follow RT sometimes, aljazeera and in fact any source of information on any topic that interests me. All in all, I think I agree with what you're saying. The best way to try to remove bias is merge the stories and take it from there. Anyway, I think sometimes there is some truth in the daily mail, fox news, the sun and all that junk media and I wonder if the truth that gets published there is published there such t…

Craprags don't exist to discredit the truth. They exist to sell their version of the truth. Sometimes that means distorting reality a little, by promoting statistics that appear -to the uninformed- to support their argument. However sometimes their version of the truth can be served verbatim. However sometimes, the truth is distorted simply because the reporter isn't educated on that subject. It's a common problem wi…

More often than not I'm not that upset either way between malice and stupidity.

The issue I have is, mostly and particularly on important topics, with their arguments themselves.

Because with big topics, you can excuse errors with stupidity (or malice as you will) but truly can't excuse the rhetoric and central message they try to convey.

On big topics and high profile news you would suspect the message is not the journalist's independent bias but is instead the management's or dare I say administration's, not just some slipped piece of news that hasn't gone through central editing and review.

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