Live data from Hacker News

Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

rt.com

31–40 of 101 posts

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#31
post #26
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, from another perspective: The same kind of hacker.

alleged credit card fraud is different from Aaron's case I would say.

You'd be amazed by what people will construe as a fraud worthy of prosecuting. Even the most socially accepted dishonesties all of a sudden become a serious federal crime when another crime is involved. A prosecutor will tack on multiple charges just in case they can't pin them for the primacy crime they believe the accused is guilty of. It's never about finding out the truth, but about finding the accused guilty of a crime the prosecutor believes the accused actually committed prior to reviewing the evidence and confirming that fight.

Or basically, "I personally believe the accused committed crime X, so I'm going to nail him regardless of the evidence. And just in case the evidence doesn't support what I believe or is inconclusive, I'm going to go ahead and charge him with several other crimes of little to no social consequence by themselves, since if I fail to convict of crime X, I know I can nail him for some of these minor crimes."

When prosecutors tack on every crime they can imagine, they are simply admitting that they simply want to put the person away at any cost.

That being said, without more details of what this alleged credit card fraud entails, I'm naturally skeptical of the charges. Wasn't JJ the guy who got caught, cooperated with the FBI and then was "thrown under the bus" so to speak by his handlers at the FBI?

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#32
post #30

I bet 99% of "hackers" (I'm using the criminal sense of the word, that I hate to use, btw) have psychological issues of one way or another and they are a suicide risk! The SS, prosecutors and whoever handles these people should fucking take that into account and put it in balance with the fact that they are a valuable resource to society! You may put a "criminal hacker" in jail for credit card fraud, but chances are,…

Don't think too many people are going to go for the idea of a certain type of criminal requiring certain special treatment...why couldn't rapists and murderers claim the same kind of social deficiencies?

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#34
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

alleged credit card fraud is different from Aaron's case I would say.

You'd be amazed by what people will construe as a fraud worthy of prosecuting. Even the most socially accepted dishonesties all of a sudden become a serious federal crime when another crime is involved. A prosecutor will tack on multiple charges just in case they can't pin them for the primacy crime they believe the accused is guilty of. It's never about finding out the truth, but about finding the accused guilty of…

Yeah it gives them leverage to force a plea bargain. ie the same as when they extended the charges for Aaron to 13.

It's a tough one though because it works both ways. Remember when they put the mobsters away using Tax laws because they couldn't make any murders or extortion stick.

Unfortunately ethics isn't binary.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#35
post #10

Two weeks after the Secret Service raided his house in conjunction with the investigation led by Heymann into the theft of tens of thousands of credit card numbers, James was found dead. Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. This other hacker (Jonathan James) didn't even wait until they pressed charges. It's not a ma…

Thats the most stupidest argument I have ever read. Please consult a psychologist.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#36
I can understand how people might expect different behavior in the Swartz case. But what in the behavior discussed in this article is other than exactly what you would expect? Of course she is going to prosecute a credit card thief who has stolen tens of thousands of cards. How does this stack up as added evidence against her?

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#38
post #2

> In 2008 Jonathan James killed himself after being implicated in the largest personal identity hack in history. Wrong kind of hacker.

He claimed he was innocent in his suicide note. Maybe a suicide note is a great place to lie in attempt to clear your name. But I think he's probably being honest to an extent.

Note that he was charged and found guilty of hacking NASA (essentially), but his suicide related to the identity theft.

From Wikipedia on the identity theft investigation: "Though he denied having done anything, James—who was friends with some of the hackers involved—was investigated by the Secret Service, who raided James', his brother's, and his girlfriend's houses [...] they apparently discovered no connection to the intrusion".

The article goes on that he was mentioned as a conspirator in another defendant's case for the identity theft, but James hadn't (yet?) been indicted.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#39
post #32
post #30

I bet 99% of "hackers" (I'm using the criminal sense of the word, that I hate to use, btw) have psychological issues of one way or another and they are a suicide risk! The SS, prosecutors and whoever handles these people should fucking take that into account and put it in balance with the fact that they are a valuable resource to society! You may put a "criminal hacker" in jail for credit card fraud, but chances are,…

Don't think too many people are going to go for the idea of a certain type of criminal requiring certain special treatment...why couldn't rapists and murderers claim the same kind of social deficiencies?

Rapists and murderers commit their crimes in the context of close interaction with their victims. Criminal hackers are the opposite. For most of them any form of social interaction, especially the forced one with the law enforcement personnel will be extremely stressful.

I think that even "basic interaction with the law system" would qualify as a mild form of psychological torture for hackers. Imagine keeping a drug addicted rapist in solitary confinement for a month with no drugs, in a windowless cell, preventing him from even masturbating or smth like that - I think this would be closer to the psychological equivalent of the stress "hackers" experience when interacting with the law system! (ok, maybe I'm exaggerating with this example but I don't know enough about drug addicted rapists' psychology to construct a better one)

Jonathan James wrote in his suicide note "Either way, I have lost control over this situation and this is my only way to regain control". For him, the lack of control and predictability of his future, induced by interaction with the law system was painful enough to make him commit suicide! People are very different and respond very differently to stress - my "basic family social interactions" may mean "psychological torture" to you! :)

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#40

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/fire-assistant-us-...

This just feels like mob mentality to me. Someone messed up, albeit badly. I would guess the guy feels bad enough as it is without needing to get 25k people to kick him when he's down.

EDIT: I guess what I'd really hope to have seen (not being a US citizen) is some petitions to get the laws/system changed rather than looking for someone to blame.

Post reply on HN