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Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

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Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#11

Post by angersock »

rprasad wrote: post #10

Two weeks after the Secret Service raided his house in conjunction with the investigation led by Heymann into the theft of tens of thousands of credit card numbers, James was found dead. Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. This other hacker (Jonathan James) didn't even wait until they pressed charges. It's not a ma…

I have a dead relative that would probably disagree with you.

Don't assume so much.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#12

Post by btilly »

rprasad wrote: post #10

Two weeks after the Secret Service raided his house in conjunction with the investigation led by Heymann into the theft of tens of thousands of credit card numbers, James was found dead. Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. This other hacker (Jonathan James) didn't even wait until they pressed charges. It's not a ma…

Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial.

Citation needed.

It makes perfect sense to me that a depressed person who has realized what trial is going to cost, and who does not believe that anyone is going to believe them, would commit suicide. An innocent person who BELIEVES that they WILL be believed probably reacts very differently. But there are a lot of people in this world who, while innocent, won't necessarily have that belief.

I would not be surprised if there was a high concentration of such among people who choose to use computers heavily.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#13

Post by [deleted] »

btilly wrote: post #12
rprasad wrote: post #10

Two weeks after the Secret Service raided his house in conjunction with the investigation led by Heymann into the theft of tens of thousands of credit card numbers, James was found dead. Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. This other hacker (Jonathan James) didn't even wait until they pressed charges. It's not a ma…

Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. Citation needed. It makes perfect sense to me that a depressed person who has realized what trial is going to cost, and who does not believe that anyone is going to believe them, would commit suicide. An innocent person who BELIEVES that they WILL be believed probably reacts very…

[deleted]

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#14

Post by rdtsc »

rprasad wrote: post #10

Two weeks after the Secret Service raided his house in conjunction with the investigation led by Heymann into the theft of tens of thousands of credit card numbers, James was found dead. Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. This other hacker (Jonathan James) didn't even wait until they pressed charges. It's not a ma…

> Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial.

Yap. Because they will clearly receive a speedy and fair trial. Without bullying and predatory plea bargaining involved. In the end when they are sure to be acquitted, if the accuser is the government, they will get all court and lawyer costs paid, and then some extra for time, inconvenience and the pain involved.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#15

Post by patrickgzill »

rprasad wrote: post #10

Two weeks after the Secret Service raided his house in conjunction with the investigation led by Heymann into the theft of tens of thousands of credit card numbers, James was found dead. Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. This other hacker (Jonathan James) didn't even wait until they pressed charges. It's not a ma…

What about being confronted with the possibility of spending $1.5 million or more on a legal defense?

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#16

Post by alaskamiller »

btilly wrote: post #12
rprasad wrote: post #10

Two weeks after the Secret Service raided his house in conjunction with the investigation led by Heymann into the theft of tens of thousands of credit card numbers, James was found dead. Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. This other hacker (Jonathan James) didn't even wait until they pressed charges. It's not a ma…

Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. Citation needed. It makes perfect sense to me that a depressed person who has realized what trial is going to cost, and who does not believe that anyone is going to believe them, would commit suicide. An innocent person who BELIEVES that they WILL be believed probably reacts very…

Are you a clinical psychologist?

Do you have citations for your perfect sense?

Can you quantify your lack of surprise?

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#17

Post by nighthawk »

tych0 wrote: post #2

> In 2008 Jonathan James killed himself after being implicated in the largest personal identity hack in history. Wrong kind of hacker.

maybe, but there's a lot more to it than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_James

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/07/hacker/

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#18

Post by rayiner »

rdtsc wrote: post #14
rprasad wrote: post #10

Two weeks after the Secret Service raided his house in conjunction with the investigation led by Heymann into the theft of tens of thousands of credit card numbers, James was found dead. Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. They kill themselves after they have lost at trial. This other hacker (Jonathan James) didn't even wait until they pressed charges. It's not a ma…

> Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. Yap. Because they will clearly receive a speedy and fair trial. Without bullying and predatory plea bargaining involved. In the end when they are sure to be acquitted, if the accuser is the government, they will get all court and lawyer costs paid, and then some extra for time, inconvenience and the pain involved.

This particular person was earlier caught hacking into computers at the DOD and NASA (as a minor). He was indicted around June or July and entered a plea in September for which he received six months of house arrest and probation until 18 (about a year). It's not a reasonable presumption that this was someone who was innocent who knew he was going to get railroaded "by the system." He was clearly someone who knew he had really fucked up this time and couldn't use his age as an excuse.

Re: Prosecutor pursuing Aaron Swartz linked to suicide of another hacker

#19

Post by rdtsc »

rayiner wrote: post #18
rdtsc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Innocent people do not kill themselves when confronted with the possibility of a trial. Yap. Because they will clearly receive a speedy and fair trial. Without bullying and predatory plea bargaining involved. In the end when they are sure to be acquitted, if the accuser is the government, they will get all court and lawyer costs paid, and then some extra for time, inconvenience and the pain involved.

This particular person was earlier caught hacking into computers at the DOD and NASA (as a minor). He was indicted around June or July and entered a plea in September for which he received six months of house arrest and probation until 18 (about a year). It's not a reasonable presumption that this was someone who was innocent who knew he was going to get railroaded "by the system." He was clearly someone who knew he…

I am not familiar that much with that specific case. I was referring more to the grandparent's general assertion that "innocent people don't kill themselves" and my point was that they only don't kill themselves if they are sure to face fair and unbiased judicial system.
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