It's a nice narrow fix and I hope it passes, but the real elephant in the room is 'plea bargaining.' That needs reform at the federal level.
Federal prosecutors' primary tactics mirror those of the medieval siege. They do their best to fling arrows at the castle by generating enormous amounts of discovery material They starve defendants with insanely over-broad civil asset forfeiture laws. They charge crimes on the prosecutor's whims: HSBC bankers get away with laundering hundreds of billions for Iran, but go after Aaron Swartz with utter malice. Of cours…
Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]
111–120 of 174 posts
Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]
#112Am I the only one who thinks that the current situation requires removing text from the federal register rather than adding it? In both cases, the changes here are insertions, with no deletions. There's plenty of offending code to delete, why let it rot more?
I agree with you, but I don't know how much credit she'd receive for merely trying to eliminate law. We wouldn't need this massive, inconsistent, vague, and convoluted law system if we just followed a few fundamental moral principles. An analogy would be the overly-complex equations to support the Earth being at the center of the solar system. When the sun was rightfully placed there, the equations became more elegan…
Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
What did I say? Did you really think of me as someone who thought it was important to be forthcoming with surveillance cameras?
No, I hadn't. It's your emphasis and attitude that come across as completely different. I kept trying to tell ya, the legal machine looks a lot different when you examine it as if you're the one at odds with it.
The law cannot hope to capture every possible nuance of all conceivable offenses. As every lawyer who's ever argued with a Hacker on HN has pointed out, the law is not a programming language and courts aren't computer architectures. We want our rules, laws, and metalaws to provide every protection to the accused that they reasonably can, but at some point it's always going to come down to the discretion of humans appointed to positions of authority. Those authorities need to be equal to the task, or we delegitimize the whole effort.
I'm sad about what happened to Aaron. I look at the photos of him in his teens hanging out with Dave Winer and Lawrence Lessig; he was a small kid, and I have a big 13 year old. I exchanged an email or two with him, but my wife didn't know him at all and she's upset, as I would assume any parent reading about this would be. And obviously in light of what happened, I'm a little harsh on how I interacted with Aaron online --- not on the prosecution threads, but you know, on threads about "hollywood launches" and stuff like that.
But beyond that, what happened offends me in principle. If they're not the exact same principles that you've had offended, that doesn't matter much, does it? The justice system seems to have achieved a pretty high level of coverage in offended principles.
Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
I read the Granick piece. One thing that strikes me as completely absurd is that the plea deal is for a substantially lower sentence and that if the plea deal is rejected the prosecution will go for a much higher punishment, sometimes as much as 10 times as much as offered in the deal. It would seem to me that if you offer a guilty plea that is 10% of what you intend to seek that if such an offer is on the record tha…
This. The law should be rewritten to prohibit prosecutors from entering into plea deals of less than X% of the maximum sentence they are prosecuting someone for, with the exception of plea/immunity deals that include providing incriminating evidence in another case or against another person. Not sure what X% should really be, but it should be sufficiently high as to prevent prosecutors from using the large delta betw…
Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lofgren's proposal appears to address the EFFs main concerns: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/01/aaron-swartz-fix-draco... Legislating against what you term "prosecutorial misconduct" is far fetched. Can you imagine how you would word that legislation without hampering law enforcement efforts against the real bad guys? Do you really want that? Having the law named after Aaron would be more than symbolic, it would…
Do I want a better sentencing system for computer fraud, so that it remains possible for companies to defend themselves without needing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars every quarter finding every conceivable loophole an attacker might exploit, while not leading to a situation where simply using a computer turns a simple offense into a 6 year prison sentence? Yes, that is what I want, and I don't think it's…
Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I hadn't. It's your emphasis and attitude that come across as completely different. I kept trying to tell ya, the legal machine looks a lot different when you examine it as if you're the one at odds with it.
By abusing computer fraud laws to needlessly persecute Aaron Swartz, these Boston prosecutors have done grave damage to the entirely legitimate enterprise of having the state help protect individuals and businesses from criminals who can and do hire out superior security talent. Look at HN over the last two days: anyone who's ever been convicted of a computer crime, even if that crime involved the mass theft and subs…
Those prosecution threads should give you pause just the same, and Aaron is absolutely not the only person that you've acted like that with. I respect you tremendously for your technical knowledge, but for someone who reminds people to 'stay classy' and who claims the moral high ground with some regularity a bit of introspection wouldn't hurt. I'd respect you a lot more still. I'm very happy to see you come around in your way of thinking about this particular case though.
Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]
#117Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Re: his actions in evading filtering and shutoffs on MIT's networks Have you seen any halfway credible summary on what he did? I'll probably read the formal indictment eventually, but I'm not expecting a real balanced presentation. To be clear: just asking if anyone has a good hyperlink. For example, I'd like to know what did he do on the Wifi other than change his MAC address? It's said he "broke into" the wiring cl…
Lots of places are unlocked that you're still not supposed to go into. How hard it is to get into somewhere you're not supposed to go is completely irrelevant, as is how hard you have to work to evade someone trying to get you off their network.
Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
By abusing computer fraud laws to needlessly persecute Aaron Swartz, these Boston prosecutors have done grave damage to the entirely legitimate enterprise of having the state help protect individuals and businesses from criminals who can and do hire out superior security talent. Look at HN over the last two days: anyone who's ever been convicted of a computer crime, even if that crime involved the mass theft and subs…
> I'm a little harsh on how I interacted with Aaron online --- not on the prosecution threads, but you know, on threads about "hollywood launches" and stuff like that. Those prosecution threads should give you pause just the same, and Aaron is absolutely not the only person that you've acted like that with. I respect you tremendously for your technical knowledge, but for someone who reminds people to 'stay classy' an…
I definitely don't think of myself as any classier than you; I think we occupy opposite poles of some deranged message board energy sphere. Or you're the heat miser and I'm the cold miser. Either way, I can spot a dumb argument as quickly as you can, and just because I'm imperfect doesn't mean I'm not going to point them out.
Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Which gives me another idea - fungible jail time. I'd have spent a day in jail for Aaron. Not a good idea. Well connected people will get off lightly.
Connected in what way? Bernie Madoff isn't going to find any friends to do time for him. Monetary compensation though? That's a whole nother can of worms. Although I've got to wonder if the incentives are aligned such that it would encourage better prison conditions.